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Japan’s Lost-and-Found System

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Re: Japan’s Lost-and-Found System

#31

Post by naniwaduni »

drak0n1c wrote: post #27
WnZ39p0Dgydaz1 wrote: post #6

As someone who lives in Japan I believe this is not a result of "Japanese people being more honest", but rather: - Availability. There are police stations (kobans) and officers on the street everywhere, just a few steps away from wherever I may find something. Turning in a lost item has no friction. All it takes is a few extra steps. In the U.S. there is huge friction - I would need to go out of my way to go to a pol…

Japan has a 99% conviction rate and indefinite uncharged detention happens often. Despite that people treat police amicably, and there is a trusting relationship. That's to me a sign that there is a fundamental cultural difference in Japanese attitude, in the US stats aren't anywhere as close to as severe, yet relations/trust is much worse. Goes to show how much of a productivity and effectiveness loss lack of trust…

There are about two ways to get a 99% conviction rate: run total kangaroo courts that only fail to convict when the defendant credibly threatens big problems if they get convicted, or just don't take cases that aren't open-and-shut to court in the first place.

And while the kangaroo court thing is maybe a bit too true to be comfortable with, I'd wager Japan errs heavily on the side of not bringing potentially contentious cases to court.

Re: Japan’s Lost-and-Found System

#32

Post by kalleboo »

WnZ39p0Dgydaz1 wrote: post #9
CaptainZapp wrote: post #7

What always stumped me is that there are virtually always lockers for umbrellas available (the exception being if they have appliances where you can wrap your umbrella into a plastic wrap before entering. That's mostly found in malls and department stores). Given that the standard plastic issue umbrella is sold in any konbini [7/11 et al]) for 500yen combined with Japanese honesty that always surprised me. Can anybod…

What do you mean by "lockers for umbrellas"? Are you talking about public spaces or restaurants? Maybe I just haven't seen them, but I'm really not sure what you are referring to. An umbrella may be 500 yen, but not getting wet when it's raining is priceless :) So, getting an umbrella stolen while you are in a store has a much higher cost than 500 yen.

https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/japan-umbrella-lo...

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2457/3970512928_4cff616efd_b....

Re: Japan’s Lost-and-Found System

#34

Post by epicgiga »

drak0n1c wrote: post #27
WnZ39p0Dgydaz1 wrote: post #6

As someone who lives in Japan I believe this is not a result of "Japanese people being more honest", but rather: - Availability. There are police stations (kobans) and officers on the street everywhere, just a few steps away from wherever I may find something. Turning in a lost item has no friction. All it takes is a few extra steps. In the U.S. there is huge friction - I would need to go out of my way to go to a pol…

Japan has a 99% conviction rate and indefinite uncharged detention happens often. Despite that people treat police amicably, and there is a trusting relationship. That's to me a sign that there is a fundamental cultural difference in Japanese attitude, in the US stats aren't anywhere as close to as severe, yet relations/trust is much worse. Goes to show how much of a productivity and effectiveness loss lack of trust…

Factoring in plea bargaining the US and Japan have roughly the same conviction rate.

Factoring in people held in US because they can't make bail, also diminished some of the "held without trial" margin. But this is fundamentally a bigger problem in Japan, as it has now embarrassed the country on the world stage due to the Ghosn case.

A state that holds people just becauss it doesn't like them, rather than due to evidence of breaking its laws, relegates them to the same league as the North Koreas of the world. Profoundly embarrassing for a first world country and a major step backwards in reputation.

Re: Japan’s Lost-and-Found System

#35

Post by epicgiga »

WnZ39p0Dgydaz1 wrote: post #6

As someone who lives in Japan I believe this is not a result of "Japanese people being more honest", but rather: - Availability. There are police stations (kobans) and officers on the street everywhere, just a few steps away from wherever I may find something. Turning in a lost item has no friction. All it takes is a few extra steps. In the U.S. there is huge friction - I would need to go out of my way to go to a pol…

I disagree. It's more due to the rigid drumming in of "these are the rules you must follow" from a young age, backed up by harsh social ostracism of those who don't follow these social rules.

Children in Japan are taught at a young age to turn in even small found items, like a single small denomination coin, to the police station.

This bakes into them the sense that "that's what you do with found items" and coupled with the fact the police will return it to them if no one collects it, bakes in a sense of trust of the police at an early age.

Re: Japan’s Lost-and-Found System

#36

Post by qtplatypus »

atonse wrote: post #13
WnZ39p0Dgydaz1 wrote: post #6

As someone who lives in Japan I believe this is not a result of "Japanese people being more honest", but rather: - Availability. There are police stations (kobans) and officers on the street everywhere, just a few steps away from wherever I may find something. Turning in a lost item has no friction. All it takes is a few extra steps. In the U.S. there is huge friction - I would need to go out of my way to go to a pol…

That is what we in the US call "community policing" which is how it used to be. The cultural image of a policeman used to be the overweight donut eating totally approachable "dad" type figure, look at pretty much any hollywood movie or show from the 70s or 80s. And since 9/11 the police have gotten a lot more militaristic. But police departments all over the country are TRYING to return to the idea of community polic…

Yes police where more community oriented in the 70's and 80's however that was something that only WASPS got. If you were an african-american, hispanic, gay etc the police where never your friend.

I have also heard people claim that in the long term this trend towards militaristic/adversarial policing is a long term fallout of the 1960's. Bright people who wanted to help others saw the police as authoritarian supporters of the status quo, so did not join. Which over the long term shifted the culture of police forces.

Re: Japan’s Lost-and-Found System

#37

Post by mcny »

unishark wrote: post #15
WnZ39p0Dgydaz1 wrote: post #6

As someone who lives in Japan I believe this is not a result of "Japanese people being more honest", but rather: - Availability. There are police stations (kobans) and officers on the street everywhere, just a few steps away from wherever I may find something. Turning in a lost item has no friction. All it takes is a few extra steps. In the U.S. there is huge friction - I would need to go out of my way to go to a pol…

> The general view of police and government as your "friendly helper" as opposed to enemies. The US has a much more negative and adversarial view of govt in general, but in polls a large majority has a much more favorable view of cops versus other govt agencies. Certainly it's a terrible generalization to say americans view cops as enemies. One import factor here is where specifically you live. Police in the US are l…

> One import factor here is where specifically you live. Police in the US are local systems which totally differ based on local laws and culture. In a place like Los Angeles County, with its high crime problems, cops are a lot more jaded and defensive. Meanwhile in the small beach cities in LA, the cops are very helpful and mellow.

This is not my understanding at all. I have a ticket that has all kinds of nonsense in a relatively low crime Overland Park, Kansas: reckless driving, bla bla bla. What I really had was a flat tire and I was stopped on the side of the road. Not that it matters because in any case the officers arrived on the scene more than ten minutes after I got the flat tire. I don't blame the officers: they can't admit it but I'm positive they have a quota to meet so they do this kind of nonsense.

Re: Japan’s Lost-and-Found System

#38

Post by unishark »

keerthiko wrote: post #29
unishark wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The general view of police and government as your "friendly helper" as opposed to enemies. The US has a much more negative and adversarial view of govt in general, but in polls a large majority has a much more favorable view of cops versus other govt agencies. Certainly it's a terrible generalization to say americans view cops as enemies. One import factor here is where specifically you live. Police in the US are l…

It's just as terrible a generalization to use polls that don't consider a great many of the people harassed and oppressed by police forces (immigrants, PoC, incarcerated, poor neighborhoods, homeless people). Yes, people feel both ways about cops, and that lack of uniformly friendly relationship across the populace is the whole point brought up by GP. To their exact sentiment > The general view of police and governme…

On the contrary a poll is about the best possible way to make generalizations. It uses random sampling to make estimates about a population. Otherwise the loudest get all the attention, certainly a big issue when it comes to cops lately.

I guess polls might miss homeless people, though there aren't enough to swing the numbers noticeably. I don't see why they'd hate cops especially.

I wonder how incarcerated people in Japan feel about cops. Have you seen ho they treat prisoners?

Re: Japan’s Lost-and-Found System

#39

Post by dralley »

naniwaduni wrote: post #31
drak0n1c wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan has a 99% conviction rate and indefinite uncharged detention happens often. Despite that people treat police amicably, and there is a trusting relationship. That's to me a sign that there is a fundamental cultural difference in Japanese attitude, in the US stats aren't anywhere as close to as severe, yet relations/trust is much worse. Goes to show how much of a productivity and effectiveness loss lack of trust…

There are about two ways to get a 99% conviction rate: run total kangaroo courts that only fail to convict when the defendant credibly threatens big problems if they get convicted, or just don't take cases that aren't open-and-shut to court in the first place. And while the kangaroo court thing is maybe a bit too true to be comfortable with, I'd wager Japan errs heavily on the side of not bringing potentially content…

It's easy to find examples for both:

https://www.vox.com/world/2015/12/13/9989250/japan-crime-con...

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2007-nov-09-fg-autop...

(although I would like to make clear -- in any large country, you will find examples of both)

Re: Japan’s Lost-and-Found System

#40

Post by jesterson »

laurieg wrote: post #18
WnZ39p0Dgydaz1 wrote: post #6

As someone who lives in Japan I believe this is not a result of "Japanese people being more honest", but rather: - Availability. There are police stations (kobans) and officers on the street everywhere, just a few steps away from wherever I may find something. Turning in a lost item has no friction. All it takes is a few extra steps. In the U.S. there is huge friction - I would need to go out of my way to go to a pol…

I agree with you that it's easy to return things in Japan. I also think there is a slight flip-side, at least in the city. There are so many people crammed together that there is a sense of always being watched, doubly so if you are a minority. I remember picking up a 100yen coin (about 1USD) in a train station. Normally I would just put it in my pocket and think "lucky me" but I was keenly aware of the station worke…

Knowing how bureaucracy in Japan works, I bet it's still there buried in station documents altogether with pile of papers stating when it was found, who passed it to who and when, probably detailed description with meticulous description of all dents on the coin.
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