I studied French from 7th-12th grade in an American High School. After that, I could not understand any French beyond "bonjour". I could not have a conversation in French. I could conjugate verbs and I could read some. Fast forward 45 years and I retired and decided to actually learn French. I followed a very, very similar method and after 9 months of self study took a 2 week intensive course in France where I was told I was at B2 level. Obviously I didn't start at A0 but when I first started with Duolingo, I remembered nothing. 45 years is a long gap. What he describes works. Even an old fart like me can get to B2 level with self study if they are motivated and use good resources. It's never been easier to learn a language with all the excellent resources available.
I Learned French in 12 Months
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Re: I Learned French in 12 Months
#102I've been using Babbel to learn Spanish. Anyone have suggestions for where to go after maxing resources like Babbel and Duolingo? I feel like I hit a wall somewhere and the next steps aren't so clear. Some of the steps the author used look helpful like changing phone language and heavy use of anki
Italki Italki Italki, nothing has been better for that. I use my flashcards I made on Quizlet, listen to videos/podcasts, re-practice Duolingo, etc., but 3-6 hours per week talking to native Speakers on Italki (or any equivalent service) will work wonders.
Re: I Learned French in 12 Months
#103As a French native speaker, I'm a little bit surprised by the corrected text OP posted in her/his article ( http://www.runwes.com/images/learningfrench/image1.png ). Most of the corrections she/he received are not justified at all. Like using the work "crédits" is totally fine in this context. I can't get why they corrected some connectors like "à" or "pour", as the usage of these in the text seem at least as correct…
For a while, I used to hang out in a subreddit for people who are learning Spanish to give advice (I'm a Spaniard). You wouldn't believe the amount of times I was "corrected" with suggestions that were clearly, blatantly wrong if I didn't outright say that I was a native speaker. I think it was mainly Americans from Spanish speaking immigrant families who were overconfident on their skills, but it was funny nonethele…
How many of those were folks correcting you were Spanish? I wonder if the folks correcting you just learned a different dialect.
For those not familiar, American Spanish diverged significantly from "mainland" Spanish. Even then Mexican Spanish is quite distinct in its own "charming" way from nearly every other Spanish speaking American country. It's not just the vocabulary, even the verb tenses are used differently in different countries. Case in point, the only time I've heard vosotros used outside of school was in a La Polla Records song (ya ahora que?). Or looking for the baños in the Barcelona airport…. The differences are significant enough it's possible you're both right.
Whenever I've seen language discussed online lots of people come out of the woodwork defending their own niche regional variations. The comments section on Vanity Fair's Slang School series of youtube videos is a particularly obnoxious example. The videos themselves are great IMO. It's not always that bad though. I was trying to figure out how to differentiate between a banana and a plantain in Spanish (yay spanishdict forums) and I didn't realize just how many different ways there are to say banana/plantain. It's like Eskimos and snow.
Re: I Learned French in 12 Months
#104As a French native speaker, I'm a little bit surprised by the corrected text OP posted in her/his article ( http://www.runwes.com/images/learningfrench/image1.png ). Most of the corrections she/he received are not justified at all. Like using the work "crédits" is totally fine in this context. I can't get why they corrected some connectors like "à" or "pour", as the usage of these in the text seem at least as correct…
I'm also a native speaker (France's French if that makes a difference). "Crédits" was replaced by "bons", which means vouchers. In the context that would indeed be the likely correct option (and I never heard "crédits" used that way...) It's grammatically incorrect to write "s'inscrire à une salle de sport" and should indeed be "dans une salle de sport" and so it was warranted to correct that. The other corrections a…
No one would bat an eye if you used crédits instead of bons in that context, nor would anyone do so if they said s'inscrire à une salle de sport instead of s'inscrire dans une salle de sport. Maybe they're gramatically incorrect for an académicien, but no one but pedants really cares about what the Académie has to say.
Re: I Learned French in 12 Months
#105Couple remarks on the author's alleged "weaknesses": >Understand strongly accented speech. I understand essentially all the “standard” French without subtitles, but very little of the Quebecois. Most European French speakers have trouble understanding Québecois as well, especially if it delves into slang, so I wouldn't fret much. High level (and written) speech should be ok though. >Understand very slang-heavy speech…
The future perfect is very much used both orally and (especially) in writing and so is the past conditional.
The passé simple is almost never used orally these days, and in writing mostly only in literary texts.
I've noticed that the subjunctive is used less in writing since some change to 'simplify' (i.e. dumb down) the language.
Exotic forms of subjunctive (imperfect subjunctive, anyone?) are hardly used anymore even in contemporary literary texts.
Re: I Learned French in 12 Months
#106> Started consistently covering 50 new words a day on Anki For anyone here who has used anki, that's a huge number. This person is really dedicating their time at this point, because 50 new cards/day very quickly snowballs and you're doing 300+ reviews daily. I did 20 reviews/day for ~6 months straight for Korean, and that took me 30-60 minutes, every day. Thinking about 50/day sounds utterly exhausting. It's a good…
How's your Korean now? Any other tips for Korean? I spent 4 months in Korea and really want to learn the language, but it seems impossibly difficult. 감사합니다 :(
Well, the good news is that its not impossibly difficult! Just very difficult. ;-) As the Koreans say, 화이팅! (Fighting!)
Korean isn't that different from other languages, really. It's difficult for English speakers because there aren't really any commonalities besides random loanwords. And it uses the SOV (subject object verb) pattern instead of SVO. Hangeul was designed to be easy to learn, so unlike Japanese, you'll always be able to read/pronounce any Korean text... even if you don't know what it means.
In some ways Korean is actually easier than, say, German (der/die/das tables, anyone?). The only thing I would say is make sure you focus on good pronunciation. Korean is very particular about mouth shapes and tongue positions. Many Americans especially come off with an accent because they neglect to put their tongue in the right spot. TalkToMeInKorean has a video course for ~$10, highly worth it.
Also, do not romanize! Only use 한글. For example, ㄱ is NOT g/k, it's simply ㄱ. Those are only meant as reference points for brand new learners. Romanizations will only impede your progress for pronunciation.
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I would say I'm intermediate in speaking, high intermediate in writing/reading, low intermediate in listening. That is to say, I can converse in Korean somewhat easily for a few hours as long as the topics are relatively basic. Like my occupation, hobbies, what I like, and so on. Listening is still very difficult for "real" conversations, because of dialects, abbreviations/contractions, slang, etc. I can listen to textbook conversations and drama dialogues much more easily. I pretty much only text my friends in Korean.
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There are 3 major players for korean learning resources right now, and a few smaller ones:
1) Go!Billy Korean. This guy is really good at korean and IMO is the best at explaining things in a clear manner. He has a youtube channel [0] as well as a website [1] with free PDFs of his lessons. He does a livestream every sunday, but he takes those ~2h videos and condenses them into shorter videos as well. He also has a textbook series which many people like.
2) HowToStudyKorean.com. This is mainly what I used when I started. This guy (over)explains sometimes but there is an incredible amount of material here. The only issue is the lesson order is kinda wack sometimes. I followed it linearly, but I read ahead if I wanted to learn that specific grammar point. I.e. how to say "because", etc.
3) TalkToMeInKorean.com. They have a youtube channel [2] and publish books. I have spent like $130+ on their books so feel free to ask a question about a particular one. The Beginner/Intermediate Korean Conversations books are really good.
Aside from these main resources, I recommend the Korean Grammar In Use textbooks. The beginner one has a good selection of grammar points. However, the main resources I mentioned pretty much cover the same beginner grammar points for free, so this book isn't strictly necessary. IMO the advanced one is worth it.
Other youtube channels I like: Dingo Story [11] has drama clips, around 10-15 minutes. WBKT Yujin [12] does lessons and listening practice, around intermediate+ level.
Apps: ignore duolingo/lingodeer, they have issues with spacing and teaching formality levels. Sejong Beginner Grammar (세종 문법 초급) is good, it has audio as well [3]. It supports android & ios.
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Dictionaries: endic.naver.com and krdict.korean.go.kr are the main dictionaries. krdict is better but a bit slower.
There's also a hanja dictinoary at hanja.dict.naver.com, but as a beginner do not start studying that stuff. It'll only complicate things. Once you're at least intermediate or so, howtostudykorean also has a hanja course [17].
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Vocab: use Anki [4]. Anki is a spaced repetition flashcards app. The pc/mac/android apps are free, the ios app is $20, which supports the developer. I cannot recommend anki enough for brute-forcing vocab acquisition. I have written about anki here [5] [6], but the manual [7] is also good.
Evita's Korean Deck [8] has almost 6k words, sorted by usage. I highly recommend using this deck, at least for the first ~5-6 months of study. The main issue with this deck is it starts to put multiple definitions on one card, which is a no-no for spaced repetition. There is also a grammar deck with sentences+audio [9], which may be of use once you study a bit more.
At some point you'll want to start maintaining your own deck, inputting vocabulary that you discover from Korean tv shows, books, webtoons, etc.
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Native Media: there are plenty of korean dramas. These are recommended because the actors usually focus on clear pronunciation and standard language. There are a lot of comedy/variety shows like Running Man (런닝맨), Knowing Bros. (아는 형님), New Journey to the West (신서유기). Even if you can't follow along much, you can still watch them and write down words you see. I bet you probably know this but Korean tv shows put text on the screen about once per second, so its a good way to pick up random vocab words.
Webtoons [10] are also great, once you are around high intermediate / advanced. Webtoon authors frequently use nonstandard language, dialects, or make mistakes so I don't recommend it for beginners.
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Practice: Hello Talk [13] is pretty good for finding people to talk to. However the real selling point is facebook-like posts: You can post longer stuff and Koreans can correct it! My Korean friends literally never correct my Korean (it gets awkward) so I have to use this to practice longer writing.
Just be mindful that some people do try to date on there. As a guy I don't really face that but some of my friends have to block people.
Tandem [14] also exists but I haven't tried it.
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Tutoring: Many people recommend tutors from italki [15]. I'm going to try it soon. My friend has a tutor that types up transcripts of their conversations and points out errors, etc. I feel that at some point, you need a personal tutor to help you fix personal issues that you may not notice.
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Language exchanges: They're not that good for actually practicing Korean, as most of them are not structured. So people just show up and just end up having conversations in English.
They are good for making korean friends, though. Just be mindful to communicate that you want to practice Korean specifically, and that might mean you guys swap from English (30 mins) to Korean (30 mins), etc.
I just text all my korean friends in Korean unless they specifically ask to split. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
For Seoul specifically, there is a GREAT exchange near 이대역 called MingleCup [16]. This one is highly structured, and you can get 1-on-1 with a korean teacher for 1 hour! The tradeoff is after that hour, you speak English with different rotating groups of people. (The koreans are coming there to learn English, after all). Its a super fun way to meet people and make friends.
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This is all I can think of off the top of my head. Feel free to email me with further questions. I'm also part of the Let's Learn Korean! discord: https://discord.gg/e3H9Pde
There are a lot of knowledgeable students and native speakers there, and its where I got most of these resources from.
I'm also working on a website that compiles all these resources + a grammar search tool into a one stop shop.
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[0]: https://www.youtube.com/user/GoBillyKorean
[1]: https://gobillykorean.com/
[2]: https://www.youtube.com/user/talktomeinkorean
[3]: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=air.org.kingse...
[4]: https://apps.ankiweb.net/ (Be careful, there is a copycat at https://www.ankiapp.com/ which is NOT the same).
[5]: https://andrewzah.com/posts/things-to-avoid-with-anki/
[6]: https://andrewzah.com/posts/better-anki-usage-guide-2019/
[7]: https://apps.ankiweb.net/docs/manual.html
[8]: https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/4066961604
[9]: https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/3614346923
[10]: https://comic.naver.com/index.nhn
[11]: https://www.youtube.com/user/moncastwebdong
[12]: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-SYbQJvveakVdU36w2kIcg
[13]: https://www.hellotalk.com/
[14]: https://www.tandem.net/
[15]: https://www.italki.com/
[16]: http://minglecup.com
[17]: https://www.howtostudykorean.com/hanja-unit-1-lessons-1-20/
Re: I Learned French in 12 Months
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
How do you see this quote relative to your real life observation ? I always wonder why people post out of context quotes without commentary, when arguably their interpretation is the most interesting part. I care a lot more about what you think than what that religious leader says.
That's fair. My Dad always taught me that life is a series of distractions. A few years ago when I was single and college age I would always approach him with opportunities to change my major or accept some cool job. He'd never tell me what to do, but instead would have me write down (or review) my goals in life. And then ask myself, "does this fit within my goals?" In following this philosophy I turned down many opp…
That’s great of your dad, and it seems it was well fitting with your personality. Did you ever want to change your goals based on opportunities, once you got out of school and your dad had less influence ?
I rarely met people that had actually viable goals while in school (not that their goal was unrealistic, just missinformed and ill fited for them), and we all took our first years out of school as a discovery period to find something that was working for us.
Re: I Learned French in 12 Months
#108I've been hacking language learning for about five years, and I've spent ridiculous amounts of time trying and reading about different strategies. I've been to Cuba, Mexico, Spain, and Puerto Rico to try immersion in different settings.
Getting to a solid level of competency in a language actually is not that hard. It just requires dedication and consistent practice.
That said, native speakers operate on a different level entirely. In my recent visit to Barcelona, I had no problems asking for directions, talking to the hotel staff and people in bars, chatting it up with friends in Spanish, etc. However, walking into a noisy / crowded restaurant where the language is going 100 miles an hour is a totally different scenario.
As much as I want to believe otherwise, I'm of the opinion that getting to a level of "automatic" response where you can fluidly handle any situation requires living in a country where the language is in your face all day every day--and even then it still takes real effort.
A friend of mine, who's a US ex-pat living in Madrid is of the same opinion. After three years living there, he still doesn't feel 100% confident; although, he admits that he has spent most of his social time around English speakers.
None of this is intended to discourage anyone at all. In fact, learning Spanish ranks as one of the best decisions I've ever made; however, I think it's important for folks to go in with realistic expectations, as there's big difference between functional competency--with a language and fluency with fluency being a "white whale".
Re: I Learned French in 12 Months
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s still much tougher to come by that one might think. For one thing, European networks don’t care about distributing their content outside of Europe, even in exchange for actual money. For another, a huge proportion of the content is dubbed from English, which isn’t ideal. Even pirating the stuff’s pretty hard, since there’s (apparently) little interest in it. Japanese may be a pain in the ass to learn but it’s ha…
For French, it’s really easy. Use a vpn to get a French ip, and you can watch TV1 - TV5 for gratuit! Avec subtitles en francais.
There's also this news channel (works in Europe, don't know outside): https://www.bfmtv.com/mediaplayer/live-video/
It's a typical 24/7 news channel but that's real, everyday French and, well, the latest news.
Re: I Learned French in 12 Months
#110Couple remarks on the author's alleged "weaknesses": >Understand strongly accented speech. I understand essentially all the “standard” French without subtitles, but very little of the Quebecois. Most European French speakers have trouble understanding Québecois as well, especially if it delves into slang, so I wouldn't fret much. High level (and written) speech should be ok though. >Understand very slang-heavy speech…
The future perfect is very much used both orally and (especially) in writing and so is the past conditional. The passé simple is almost never used orally these days, and in writing mostly only in literary texts. I've noticed that the subjunctive is used less in writing since some change to 'simplify' (i.e. dumb down) the language. Exotic forms of subjunctive (imperfect subjunctive, anyone?) are hardly used anymore ev…
> The future perfect is very much used both orally
The past conditional, maybe. The future, really? Do you actually say things like nous nous verrons demain or il l'aura fait avant in casual speech? Well I don't know if you do, but the vast majority of French speakers would say something like on se voit demain et il l'a probablement fait avant. Instead of using specific verb forms to convery meaning people instead rely on context and adverbial cues, as do the speakers of the dozens of languages that do not use the byzantine tense and mood system of the Romance languages (see: Japanese, Chinese, etc.) and are certainly not the worse for it.
>I've noticed that the subjunctive is used less in writing since some change to 'simplify' (i.e. dumb down) the language.
You're aware that the argument you're making about the language getting "dumbed down" is literally millennia old, right?