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South Korea switching their 3.3M PCs to Linux

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Re: South Korea switching their 3.3M PCs to Linux

#41
post #36

South Korean here, explanation for some context: South Korea has a deep legacy of MS-DOS/Windows, and it’s reliance of Microsoft’s OS is very high. This mostly is due to two reasons: the high use of the unique word processor(Hangul Word Processor) and the legacy ActiveX plugins used for cryptography when banking. In the 90s, multiple internet service providers used ActiveX technology (for people who doesn’t know, it’…

> the government thought that this was a good time to remove much of the legacy that enforces Windows, and is considering Linux for one of its options. Microsoft will just offer Windows for free and Office at a steep discount and nothing will change. Mark my words :-)

> Microsoft will just offer Windows for free

Which... doesn’t have a really incentive now in because all of the legacy components that required Windows in the first place are all broken on Win10...

> Office at a steep discount

... and we don’t really rely on Microsoft Office that much (compared to other countries). The dominant word processor is from a local company (side note: Word is just awful... seriously. Maybe it’s due to no competition., and the local company has viable solutions that provide very high compatibility (seriously, l just can’t believe how they did it, it’s super compatible) with Word, Excel & Powerpoint. (AFAIK they export them to other countries governments as well.)

Re: South Korea switching their 3.3M PCs to Linux

#42

South Korean here, explanation for some context: South Korea has a deep legacy of MS-DOS/Windows, and it’s reliance of Microsoft’s OS is very high. This mostly is due to two reasons: the high use of the unique word processor(Hangul Word Processor) and the legacy ActiveX plugins used for cryptography when banking. In the 90s, multiple internet service providers used ActiveX technology (for people who doesn’t know, it’…

Since you’re here, can you explain what’s special about the Hancom/Hangul office software?

The Wikipedia articles all just say things like “specialized support” or “special needs”. I would have assumed that the key requirement is Hangul input, which presumably other word processing and spreadsheet programs could do just fine.

Re: South Korea switching their 3.3M PCs to Linux

#44
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Munich successfully pivoted to Linux for over a decade, then Microsoft Germany moved their HQ to Munich no doubt greasing many wheels in the process and Munich switched back to Windows a year later IIRC.

No mention of it in the English Wikipedia Munich article, but there's one about LiMux, their custom distro: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiMux German Wikipedia's München article does mention it: (Deutsch) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geschichte_M%C3%BCnchens (English) https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3... Edit: Sorry, actually my trail was 1) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnchen 2) h…

There's plenty of reporting to be found if you just search "munich linux".

From the end of [0]:

> At the time Munich began the move to LiMux in 2004, it was one of the largest organizations to reject Windows, and Microsoft took the city's leaving so seriously that its then CEO Steve Ballmer flew to Munich, but the mayor at the time, Christian Ude, stood firm.

> More recently, Microsoft last year moved its German company headquarters to Munich.

[0] https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-in-munich-no-comp...

Re: South Korea switching their 3.3M PCs to Linux

#45

South korean developer here. I am quite aware of government plans for software since I've done my service as a software developer for army. There is a company called TmaxSoft which advertises itfself as only builders to the 'Korean OS'. Fueled by relatively high patriotism shared by average koreans, the government had been subsidizing this firm for more than 10 years. Despite the effort to liberate the nation from a…

More on TMaxSoft.

This software firm builds many 'hard' softwares like OS, DBMS or even MapReduce data processing cluster(like hadoop and spark). One might naturally ask 'why build a wheel while there are plenty already built by open source developers?' and economically aware person might also ask 'how are selling their products while competing against ubuntu, postgresql, spark?'

Cloning something from scratch and learning advanced technology in its process is a familiar thing in Korea. Enforcing home grown products to average customers, subsidizing one specific firm to take all domestic market share is how Samsung and Hyundai made its way to top global firms. So I guess the mental background for replacing OS by home made OS is similar to that which successfully grew Samsung. They are willing to pay off a lot of money so that a Korean firm outgrows Google, Facebook or Apple. An average developer knows it is a stupid plan to replicate linux or mysql from scratch. But government officials' heart still remain in the golden age when the very strategy they are executing with was valid for Samsung or Hyundai.

The way this firm hires its employees is tighly coupled with government. In our country all men are obliged to military service. However there are couple of options:

1. B.S holders: no exemption. 2 years in a random role. 2. M.S holders: you get to work for private firm for 3 years. Called 'special research agents'. Mostly work for engineering related firms. 3. Ph.D holders: you are exempted as soon as you become a Ph.D holder.

All these exemption rules according to the level of scholastic degree is to foster R&D capability of our nation. And here comes a perky question: 'What happens to Ph.D dropouts?' As some might have guessed: 'You go to TmaxSoft, get hefty salary, get a girl, get married.'

I wouldn't say much about it if there weren't a fact that really bugs me. They do hoard M.S holders from best colleges, however the graduate students they hire aren't limited to CS majors. I've seen multiple chemistry majors or industrial engineering majors who dropped out of Ph.D course doing software engineering there. I have no idea how they could 'train' a non CS major to write code for hard core stuffs like OS or DBMS. And they tell the government officials that they have the best pool of engineers from prestigious colleges, which would ease the government to making decision to subsidize this firm.

Re: South Korea switching their 3.3M PCs to Linux

#46

South korean developer here. I am quite aware of government plans for software since I've done my service as a software developer for army. There is a company called TmaxSoft which advertises itfself as only builders to the 'Korean OS'. Fueled by relatively high patriotism shared by average koreans, the government had been subsidizing this firm for more than 10 years. Despite the effort to liberate the nation from a…

Hello, nice to meet another Korean (still wake at 4AM) on HN! :-) > The result was criticism that is was just a pathetic clone of MintOS(linux distro). I’m pretty sure you’re mixing up Harmonica with Tmax — Harmonica is based on Linux Mint (and is a pretty well operated open source project) while Tmax uses the Linux kernel, some BSD components and a custom desktop environment that features a rip-off interface of Wind…

thanks for pointing this out :=)

Re: South Korea switching their 3.3M PCs to Linux

#47
post #42

South Korean here, explanation for some context: South Korea has a deep legacy of MS-DOS/Windows, and it’s reliance of Microsoft’s OS is very high. This mostly is due to two reasons: the high use of the unique word processor(Hangul Word Processor) and the legacy ActiveX plugins used for cryptography when banking. In the 90s, multiple internet service providers used ActiveX technology (for people who doesn’t know, it’…

Since you’re here, can you explain what’s special about the Hancom/Hangul office software? The Wikipedia articles all just say things like “specialized support” or “special needs”. I would have assumed that the key requirement is Hangul input, which presumably other word processing and spreadsheet programs could do just fine.

> I would have assumed that the key requirement is Hangul input, which presumably other word processing and spreadsheet programs could do just fine.

Hangul support was a key feature in the 80s where everything was MS-DOS; and it wasn’t prevalent then where a lot of hangul-supporting word processors were on the market.

The killer feature of the Hangul Word Processor to most users is that it allows substantial control on the layout of the document... in a way that westerners don’t really care. (That’s a direct quote from a foreigner I know, maybe an over-generalization.) So the Korean Government and a lot of corporations were very committed on transitioning documents that were written by hand, to computers, and they also wanted to have this exact layout and form that was used before. Most forms are based out of tables — and I can’t really explain this in text, but it gives you the power to layout the text the exact way you want, while in Word, you feel like you’re wrestling with the layout engine. (Kinda like... if Word is old CSS where you had to use all kinds of float hacks to make your fragile layout, HWP gives you flexbox and grids... etc....) Some says that HWP is more like a DTD program like InDesign (I’ve never used it so I can’t really comment) rather than a usual word processor that other countries use... but everybody is just super used to having all that control, so nobody can really transition back to Word.

Re: South Korea switching their 3.3M PCs to Linux

#48
post #10
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average CERN user is way more tech savvy than random government workers.

The average CERN user already does not use Windows or any MS products. All research infra is Linux (Cern Linux, a CentOS derivative), and apart from a stray Macbook, I've never seen anyone use anything but Linux. Windows was for a few desktops, administrative staff and optionally email (some Exchange or OWA stuff or sth).

So the whole Windows infrastructure from 2000 - 2005, including the use of Office to write documents in some is gone?

And everyone at HLT has ditched their Apple laptops?

I thought Scientific Linux was no longer a thing (I was a beta user back in the initial release).

Re: South Korea switching their 3.3M PCs to Linux

#49
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the government thought that this was a good time to remove much of the legacy that enforces Windows, and is considering Linux for one of its options. Microsoft will just offer Windows for free and Office at a steep discount and nothing will change. Mark my words :-)

> Microsoft will just offer Windows for free Which... doesn’t have a really incentive now in because all of the legacy components that required Windows in the first place are all broken on Win10... > Office at a steep discount ... and we don’t really rely on Microsoft Office that much (compared to other countries). The dominant word processor is from a local company (side note: Word is just awful... seriously. Maybe…

No idea where you are getting any of this from...

A little hard to complain when we can take dlls that are 10-12 years old shove them into something like server 2019/SQL 2019, and not think about compatibility.

Same goes for client apps, was your app shit 10 years ago? It's not going to change 10 years later. Did it work in word 10 years ago, it will most likely work 10 years later with zero changes.

Re: South Korea switching their 3.3M PCs to Linux

#50

South korean developer here. I am quite aware of government plans for software since I've done my service as a software developer for army. There is a company called TmaxSoft which advertises itfself as only builders to the 'Korean OS'. Fueled by relatively high patriotism shared by average koreans, the government had been subsidizing this firm for more than 10 years. Despite the effort to liberate the nation from a…

More on TMaxSoft. This software firm builds many 'hard' softwares like OS, DBMS or even MapReduce data processing cluster(like hadoop and spark). One might naturally ask 'why build a wheel while there are plenty already built by open source developers?' and economically aware person might also ask 'how are selling their products while competing against ubuntu, postgresql, spark?' Cloning something from scratch and le…

Well not even Samsung can do proper SW engineering (it's an insanely failed side of Samsung and yeah it's that bad) and they can pay top dollar.

Koreans just cant really do b2c products that well that are not hardware.

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