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Treat Facebook like something between a telco and a newspaper, says Zuckerberg

reuters.com

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Re: Treat Facebook like something between a telco and a newspaper, says Zuckerberg

#61
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Facebook wants anything, as it is simply an abstract legal concept. Employees and shareholders of Facebook are the ones to watch. They were the first movers on the totally not coordinated Alex Jones shunning. Youtube had previously struck a video or two, but Facebook was the first to bring down the ban hammer. Days later Jones was banned from every other major platform - with Twitter being the single ex…

Those sort of situations are not coordinated. It's just that companies like Facebook, Twitter etc don't want to attract negative PR attention by being the first to move. Once one of them does move it's far less risky to follow.

That is a distinction without a difference, even in the most charitable light. Do I think they're meeting in smoke filled back rooms to plot their dark deeds? No. They are actually very open about it, sending company officers and employees to panels on the topic, echoing the same messaging about their self appointed burden in policing the thoughts of others.

It is not unlike a mob. While it is comprised of autonomous individuals, there is a feedback loop of their own making that results in an emergent behavior. Translated into moonman talk: something something social contract, something... collective will.

Re: Treat Facebook like something between a telco and a newspaper, says Zuckerberg

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that is the point. It's a feature, not a bug, to filter out anyone who is not willing to click through a license agreement for the sake of participating in the community. Such an individual is antisocial.

What? Are you delusional? I rarely ever get this concerned at HN comments, but to say outright that one should be willing to give up any liberties or rights a corporation deems are dangerous, in order to participate in a group that has no inherent need for their products anyway , is beyond nonsensical. This is more than can be called a "social contract"; Facebook is committing social theft by stealing away any local…

pretty sure parent comment is tongue-in-cheek

Re: Treat Facebook like something between a telco and a newspaper, says Zuckerberg

#63
post #35
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook serves many important roles especially with the groups feature. I know many reddit/tech headasses will jerk off to the fact they abhor facebook but facebook is integral to many local communities helping facilitate an online flea market of sorts and almost being the most important network for students (used textbooks, study groups, entrepreneurship etc.) dont like it but its much more useful than the local ne…

Yeah, but I don't see how that's a good thing. Many groups near me have moved exclusively to Facebook meaning I'm essentially locked out from participating in them. Previously stuff like this would have been organized through a mailing list or maybe a BBS. Facebook taking this over means that you have to allow them spying on you to take part in basic social activities.

The BBS and mailing list were vulnerable to spying too. I certainly remember the weird signatures people used on their emails to "confuse echelon".

Re: Treat Facebook like something between a telco and a newspaper, says Zuckerberg

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that is the point. It's a feature, not a bug, to filter out anyone who is not willing to click through a license agreement for the sake of participating in the community. Such an individual is antisocial.

What? Are you delusional? I rarely ever get this concerned at HN comments, but to say outright that one should be willing to give up any liberties or rights a corporation deems are dangerous, in order to participate in a group that has no inherent need for their products anyway , is beyond nonsensical. This is more than can be called a "social contract"; Facebook is committing social theft by stealing away any local…

Well, let's put it this way: "The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent."

You can stay away from Facebook and then feel really smug ten years from now when it eventually collapses. But until then, you'd have missed out on a lot of important things. The only winning move is to realize that you do not have a choice, and that the terms of service are just an illusion.

For the record, I think Facebook's existence is regrettable. But the notion that you have any ability, choice, freedom, right, or opportunity to opt out from it is laughable.

As for the idea of the social contract, I think you are actually spot on:

> Social contract arguments typically posit that individuals have consented, either explicitly or tacitly, to surrender some of their freedoms and submit to the authority [...] in exchange for protection of their remaining rights or maintenance of the social order.

Individuals have:

[?] consented explicitly

[x] consented tacitly

[x] to surrender some of their freedoms

[x] to submit to the authority [Facebook]

[ ] in exchange for protection of their remaining rights

[x] in exchange for maintenance of the social order

In fact, it could even be argued that this de-facto state of affair ought to be made de-jure. Certainly, it is the case already today that many of my local government agencies are more active on Twitter or Facebook than they are over phone or e-mail. In fact, they rarely use e-mail for regulatory reasons. If someone is suicidal, has an extreme drinking problem, or holds extremist political beliefs, we consider this a transgression and rightfully lock them up/commit them to involuntary psychiatric care. Why is this not the case for all self-harmful behaviors?

Considering many employers etc. already want it, it doesn't seem far-fetched to consider people hermits for refusing to participate, just as we consider an individual defect for not owning a smartphone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMChO0qNbkY

Re: Treat Facebook like something between a telco and a newspaper, says Zuckerberg

#67

So IOW he's ok with the government breaking Facebook into a bunch of smaller Regional Holding Companies, as it did with the Bell System?

Don’t worry, in 30 years they’ll just coalesce back into the same blob. Maybe sometimes they’ll make a big show out of it, but enough time will have got by for everyone to forget why it happened in the first place.

Re: Treat Facebook like something between a telco and a newspaper, says Zuckerberg

#68

I'm still not sure why we don't regulate companies like facebook like we did the rail industry. Force facebook and other social media companies to develop an open API and standard and guarantee interoparibility, akin to other federalized networks that already exist. This takes the biggest anti-competitive aspect of facebook out, the network and walled garden effect they have due to their sheer size. It will mean that…

Because you could show a politician a set of incompatible railroad tracks and they would understand the problem. No such luck here.

Re: Treat Facebook like something between a telco and a newspaper, says Zuckerberg

#69

So he wants all the benefits of being a monopolistic platform without any of the responsibilities and he wants all the benefits of being a publisher without any of the responsibilities. Zuckerburg wants to eat his cake and have it too. Letting facebook be part telco and part newspaper would make it the greatest propaganda machine in human history - one that is controlled by one person. Hopefully countries will start…

Are we just going to pretend that telcos are not heavily entrenched in the entertainment, media, and content publishing industries?

The difference with Zuckerberg is that he is so brazen about the conflict of interest. Goes to show that our antitrust laws are a joke and not taken seriously by anyone in the industry.

Re: Treat Facebook like something between a telco and a newspaper, says Zuckerberg

#70
I feel like Zuckerberg doesn't get enough credit. I never heard anyone describe Facebook that way, but immediately when I read "something between a telco and a newspaper" I felt like "oh yeah, that makes sense." They clearly offer services that are very telecom-like, and others that are more newspaper-like. They probably also have planned out how being viewed this way would effect them favorably, but it also just makes sense.
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