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Don’t stage off Starship

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Re: Don’t stage off Starship

#21

Post by mkl »

Udik wrote: post #13
bobcostas55 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buddy, we're gonna dysonsphere every sun in the galaxy. Mars isn't arrogant, it's just that we have to learn to crawl before we start running.

Should we wait until we get a warp drive engine? Because thinking of reaching anything further than our solar system with our current physics (not technology- that we can improve by building stuff) is more silly than trying to cross the Pacific ocean with help of a floating rubber duck.

Even at (way) sub-light speeds, it's probably possible. Whether it's automated self-replicating ships (possibly carrying humans as gene sequences), or generation ships (seems pretty hellish!), a number of people have estimated mathematically that it's doable. Estimates vary wildly, of course, as there are many unknowns, but basically exponential growth gets unintuitively fast. Some links (there are many more pages too):

https://io9.gizmodo.com/how-self-replicating-spacecraft-coul...

https://www.open.edu/openlearn/science-maths-technology/scie...

Re: Don’t stage off Starship

#22

Post by komali2 »

anoncake wrote: post #20
missosoup wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of all the wealthy 'out of touch' people to complain about, you choose the one guy with a risky but rewarding vision that will benefit all of our species if achieved, instead of everyone else sailing on their super yachts and buying elections and molesting children?

The submission is about Elon Musk's company so it makes sense to talk about Elon Musk. Discussion about other billionaires would be off topic.

> I really think billionaires have a place in our society

I think a discussion of other billionaires is on topic considering the OP's message.

Re: Don’t stage off Starship

#23

Post by flancian »

drenginian wrote: post #17
namaemuta wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a short-sighted attitude. Colonizing Mars opens the door to a lot of advances in many, many fields. At first it will be difficult and expensive as it has happened with every new advance in the past. Precisely because of it, people will think of ideas to improve all the process and related problems. And presenting those new problems that we aren't facing now can lead to solutions that could be used in other commo…

Sounds vague. I’d say do like bill gates and put the billions directly into worthwhile causes instead instead of suggesting the trickle down will be unquantified but amazing.

I'd say let's do both; let's try every approach, in rational proportions.

There is likely an optimal ratio of spending between humanitarian causes and existential risks. What is it? Is this ratio, and others that have the potential for shaping the future of humanity, openly discussed somewhere?

If so, where?

Re: Don’t stage off Starship

#24

Post by perlgeek »

smoyer wrote: post #16

I have a few interesting questions ... to be fair, I've done no science or math to make a conclusion but there would certainly be a sense of irony involved. 1. Could the green-house gases produced to launch a civilization to Mars be the final straw that breaks our eco-system's back? 2. What are the moral implications of terra-forming Mars and moving a small population there, knowing that the population remaining on E…

> 1. Could the green-house gases produced to launch a civilization to Mars be the final straw that breaks our eco-system's back?

That seems very unlikely to me.

> 2. What are the moral implications of terra-forming Mars and moving a small population there, knowing that the population remaining on Earth is doomed?

Even if we spent half of our resources on sending people to mars and hurting Earth's biosphere in the process, Earth would still be much more habitable than Mars.

Heck, even worst-case scenarios for man-made climate change "just" reduce the areas where humans can live on earth (and that's a huge catastrophe for everybody), but there's literally NO PLACE on Mars where you can survive at all without pressurized residence etc.

Re: Don’t stage off Starship

#25

Post by tasogare »

drenginian wrote: post #5

Im no less a science fiction fan than the next person but the whole “colonize Mars” thing is stupid and wasteful and arrogant and really pounds the message that billionaires are deeply deeply out of touch with the rest of society. Not only will colonizing Mars never work, there’s no reason at all to want to. What a dead, barren place. And in the meantime back down to earth people are really starting to care about ine…

It’s "only" a three months travel. In prehistoric time or even modern times it was dream to even go to space, yet people step on the Moon. It will be costly, there will be deads but it the next frontier humanity has to cross before spreading further.

Re: Don’t stage off Starship

#26

Post by varjag »

heavyset_go wrote: post #18
Udik wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea of colonizing Mars only makes sense in the head of a teenager who read to much bad sf. Our whole idea of spaceships crossing empty space and founding colonies on other planets is just a projection on the past successes of the age of discoveries, when actual ships crossed the oceans and reached new continents. But those continents were perfectly habitable, with tons of resources, plants and animals th…

Musk isn't an engineer.

About time you edit his Wikipedia page then.

Re: Don’t stage off Starship

#27

Post by PaulHoule »

smoyer wrote: post #16

I have a few interesting questions ... to be fair, I've done no science or math to make a conclusion but there would certainly be a sense of irony involved. 1. Could the green-house gases produced to launch a civilization to Mars be the final straw that breaks our eco-system's back? 2. What are the moral implications of terra-forming Mars and moving a small population there, knowing that the population remaining on E…

I want to use a Starship to put a solar sail factory on an NEO and send the sails to Earth-Moon L1 to block sunlight to buy us some time.

If you think you can change human nature fast enough to curb climate change you should think again; introduce new energy sources that are cheaper than fossil fuels and you can make them.obsolete.

Re: Don’t stage off Starship

#28

Post by hughes »

smoyer wrote: post #16

I have a few interesting questions ... to be fair, I've done no science or math to make a conclusion but there would certainly be a sense of irony involved. 1. Could the green-house gases produced to launch a civilization to Mars be the final straw that breaks our eco-system's back? 2. What are the moral implications of terra-forming Mars and moving a small population there, knowing that the population remaining on E…

Methane-oxygen propellant can be near carbon-neutral when using huge solar farms to produce it from CO2 and water in the surrounding air. No net increase in greenhouse gasses. However, the ingredients of this process would be redistributed to the upper atmosphere - the effects of this should be carefully studied.

Re: Don’t stage off Starship

#29

Post by anoncake »

namaemuta wrote: post #14
drenginian wrote: post #5

Im no less a science fiction fan than the next person but the whole “colonize Mars” thing is stupid and wasteful and arrogant and really pounds the message that billionaires are deeply deeply out of touch with the rest of society. Not only will colonizing Mars never work, there’s no reason at all to want to. What a dead, barren place. And in the meantime back down to earth people are really starting to care about ine…

What a short-sighted attitude. Colonizing Mars opens the door to a lot of advances in many, many fields. At first it will be difficult and expensive as it has happened with every new advance in the past. Precisely because of it, people will think of ideas to improve all the process and related problems. And presenting those new problems that we aren't facing now can lead to solutions that could be used in other commo…

Can you give some examples please? I'd be particularly interested in ways colonizing Mars would help us solve the serious problems we already have like bigotry, inequality, the climate catastrophe...

Re: Don’t stage off Starship

#30

Post by zozbot234 »

drenginian wrote: post #5

Im no less a science fiction fan than the next person but the whole “colonize Mars” thing is stupid and wasteful and arrogant and really pounds the message that billionaires are deeply deeply out of touch with the rest of society. Not only will colonizing Mars never work, there’s no reason at all to want to. What a dead, barren place. And in the meantime back down to earth people are really starting to care about ine…

Yes, we aren't colonizing the Gobi Desert and we're supposed to colonize Mars? What a silly idea.
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