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More emphasis on trains in Europe to replace flights

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Re: More emphasis on trains in Europe to replace flights

#41

Post by FabHK »

pjmlp wrote: post #11
pr0duktiv wrote: post #2

Glad that they’re working on it, right now flying is just cheaper on many cases. Need to go from Zurich to Paris? The TGV Train will cost you almost twice as much as a short direct flight. Berlin to Munich? Also cheaper by plane. Being a student with a limited budget, this very much affects my decision.

Thing is, not only it is cheaper, it is much more effective regarding use of time. Zurich to Paris just takes too long by train, and doing night trains isn't always an option.

> [flying] is much more effective regarding use of time.

For short and medium distances it rarely is, given that

A) for flights, you ought to be at the airport 1 to 2 hours before departure.

B) the train typically takes you from city centre to city centre, while the airport is frequently 1/2 to 1 hours out.

C) on the train, you can work non-stop, while on a short flight a good proportion of the time you spend in security, boarding, take-off and approach, where you can’t be on your laptop.

D) on many routes, trains depart every hour or even more frequently, so you can basically go whenever you want.

Re: More emphasis on trains in Europe to replace flights

#42

Post by sudoaza »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #16
sudoaza wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is crazy!! We need action on this immediately. I suspect aviation subsides are to blame.

Aviation is highly taxed (about half of your ticket). Subsidies (or more accurately tax discounts) are only on fuel which is something like 10% of your flight costs. Rest goes on staff and capex. There already is form of transport that's much cheaper than train or flying which is called BUS. We can make them fully electric and even have different classes. They can share existing infrastructure that doesn't require th…

Eeww maybe once flixbus is fully electric...

Re: More emphasis on trains in Europe to replace flights

#43

Post by dzhiurgis »

captainbland wrote: post #25
dzhiurgis wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not that comfortable. Sure you've got slightly more leg space than Ryanair, but difference is minimal. The only train I've really ever liked was Amtrak, but unsure whether I was somehow upgraded to their premium seats. Taking Canadian train after that was a torture. Also they are much more expensive. Which makes sense as tech itself is legacy. The cost of maintaining, lack of competition (especially with bus…

You can't run electric buses at >100mph for one thing.

But you can operate them 2-5x cheaper.

Re: More emphasis on trains in Europe to replace flights

#44

Post by bravura »

pjmlp wrote: post #39
input_sh wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially when you account boarding, navigating the airport, having to show up at least half an hour before the flight, security checkups... All time-consuming tasks related to boarding the actual aircraft that you don't have to go through to hop on a train.

No, you have to run like crazy hoping not to lose the connection train, being stopped in the middle of nowhere without any information, stuffed into wagons without air conditioning and possibility to open the windows, cramped with more passengers than available seats, without any place to stuff luggage, out of order toilets,....

Okay so fly to CDG in Paris and then enjoy the annoying train ride into Paris that takes an hour and leaves infrequently. How do you get to and from the airport anyway?

Many cities it’s a nightmare to get to the airport, whereas the train station is usually central.

Re: More emphasis on trains in Europe to replace flights

#45

Post by tluyben2 »

Darmody wrote: post #5

As a European I love this. Not only because it's better for the environment but I really like trains. They are confy, fast and cheap. There's no need to pay extra for your baggage, you just hop in with your stuff, take a seat, read, watch a movie, listen to a podcast or sleep for a while and you're already at your destination.

Depends on what distances you are travelling I suppose; the prices for longer travel are, imho, very high and sure it is comfy but compared to a plane? Planes are cheaper and much faster. At the same price I think many would still take the plane. If trains were vastly cheaper, then maybe it would change a lot.

But only inside the Netherlands, I only know a few commuters in my circles who go by train; the rest drive a car, noting inconvenience (train then tram instead of door to door) and, more so, high prices as reason.

Re: More emphasis on trains in Europe to replace flights

#46

Post by Hamuko »

pr0duktiv wrote: post #2

Glad that they’re working on it, right now flying is just cheaper on many cases. Need to go from Zurich to Paris? The TGV Train will cost you almost twice as much as a short direct flight. Berlin to Munich? Also cheaper by plane. Being a student with a limited budget, this very much affects my decision.

A flight between Helsinki and Rovaniemi is like 1h 20min. The train will take 8 to 12 hours. Even accounting for all of the airport bullshit, you'll save so much time by taking the plane without a big increase in cost (at least if you book in advance).

Re: More emphasis on trains in Europe to replace flights

#47

Post by macspoofing »

Darmody wrote: post #5

As a European I love this. Not only because it's better for the environment but I really like trains. They are confy, fast and cheap. There's no need to pay extra for your baggage, you just hop in with your stuff, take a seat, read, watch a movie, listen to a podcast or sleep for a while and you're already at your destination.

Trains aren't cheap. Where is that coming from? Anytime I travelled in Europe, either plane or bus were the better/cheaper options.

Re: More emphasis on trains in Europe to replace flights

#49

Post by Hamuko »

Darmody wrote: post #5

As a European I love this. Not only because it's better for the environment but I really like trains. They are confy, fast and cheap. There's no need to pay extra for your baggage, you just hop in with your stuff, take a seat, read, watch a movie, listen to a podcast or sleep for a while and you're already at your destination.

Trains are really slow actually.

Re: More emphasis on trains in Europe to replace flights

#50

Post by ArmandGrillet »

papaf wrote: post #32
pr0duktiv wrote: post #2

Glad that they’re working on it, right now flying is just cheaper on many cases. Need to go from Zurich to Paris? The TGV Train will cost you almost twice as much as a short direct flight. Berlin to Munich? Also cheaper by plane. Being a student with a limited budget, this very much affects my decision.

Also cheaper by plane. Being a student with a limited budget, this very much affects my decision. My tips would be: * Book at least a week in advance. * Buy a Bahn Card 25. * Get up early. If you do this Berlin -> Munich is €44.90 next Saturday on the 4 hour fast train. Also don't forget, it costs around €11 to go from Munich airport to the city.

This is the pro-tip, a Bahn Card 25 reimburses itself in 2-3 trips and trains booked 6 weeks in advance (which is what I do for airplanes) or even 3-4 weeks in advances are inexpensive (like 30€ for a Hamburg Dammtor -Frankfurt HbF which is way more comfortable than going to both airports).

One thing I despise about trains in Germany and France is that the experience still feels way too old school. What happens when something is delayed or when a connection has an issue makes you feel back in the eighties. The Deutsche Bahn applications are a great way to see that, it's confused and overly complicated. I wish the UX of apps/websites like https://www.trainline.eu/ would be the standard by now.

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