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The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

jarednelsen.dev

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Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#241

Post by bilekas »

ideal0227 wrote: post #90

When my classmates were preparing interview coding questions, I was working on a mini TCP implementation and a toy kernel. AWS rejected me since I failed to write prefect code to traverse a tree in level order. Google did not even give me an interview since I told the campus recruiter I have not prepared for the coding questions. Then I ended up with an internship at CoreOS and created etcd. I am glad that they did n…

One thing to note about coding interviews, they're very simular to somone looking over your shoulder while you're working.

Nobody can perform well like that.. One great colleague who I wish I was in the interview for, simple started thinking out loud.

Everything he was thinking, he said out loud, and of course, the team loved it. Because thats all it's about.

If its not over a video chat/submission, comment your code your thoughts, remember, they want to know you chain of though, not your knowledge of a framework/algorithm (unless its very specific)

> Today, I am sure I still cannot pass the coding interview

If you know how to figure out the problem, forget the technical side and explain how you would go and figure it out.

Problem solve. Don't worry.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#242

Post by epicgiga »

This is life though right? These companies pay crazy high salaries -- they're not going to make it easy on you.

The fact that you'll barely be using the algorithms if at all doesn't matter. They use that for interviewing specifically because it's hard, and it screens for intelligence, problem solving speed, knowledge, and even how fast you learn (since everyone's got to learn the same algorithm question prep).

The end goal for them is that all their workers are at a minimum screened for the ability to grind at and break through difficult and esoteric problems, which are the biggest time sinks and therefore biggest limiters on the progress of the business.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#243

Post by sarchertech »

platz wrote: post #29
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I think every time I see one of these articles but tech companies still have a permanent door into every congressional office to plead the exact opposite while seeking to import more labor into the market.

When they say that, they want phds, not entry level candidates

No they don't. They want more H-1B employees with 4 year degrees.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#244

Post by new_realist »

ideal0227 wrote: post #90

When my classmates were preparing interview coding questions, I was working on a mini TCP implementation and a toy kernel. AWS rejected me since I failed to write prefect code to traverse a tree in level order. Google did not even give me an interview since I told the campus recruiter I have not prepared for the coding questions. Then I ended up with an internship at CoreOS and created etcd. I am glad that they did n…

Google had the equivalent of etcd a long, long time ago.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#245

Post by chillacy »

reggieband wrote: post #137

> “Yes. Can you write an algorithm to find the Kth highest value in a binary tree?” I got this exact question on a phone screen with "Giant Search and Advertising Company." I got stuck on a stupid detail and botched the implementation. Once I hung up the phone I took a deep breath and fixed the algorithm in about 15 minutes. That still isn't very good since I was only given 15 minutes total at the end of the intervie…

If it makes you feel better I’ve failed google’s interview several times before passing, after just grinding questions. It’s in some ways silly but not so silly that I’m willing to forgo a job which pays so much out of principle if I can help it.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#246

Post by agumonkey »

bllguo wrote: post #128
agumonkey wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it that different from a cover letter ?

well adding the visual element just introduces another source of bias.. and even if we set that aside, depending on the position it may be selecting for an irrelevant skill cover letters are terrible anyway. the signal to noise ratio there must be comical.

what are better recruitment ideas replacing cover letters ? (honest question)

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#247

Post by jonathankoren »

throwaway5283 wrote: post #212
paxys wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah! Reminds me of https://twitter.com/mxcl/status/608682016205344768 . Cynical answer though — Google does not want people like you. They don't want to hire entrepreneurs or inventors. They want people who can churn out code when given specific instructions, and that is what their interview process optimizes for.

This is absolutely true. I work at Giant Search and Advertising Company, and joining was a huge mistake. I thought I would be working interesting technical problems with a high degree of autonomy — instead the work is extremely boring, and you get ahead by playing political games rather than by innovating. I’m one of the rare few here who managed to get through the interview without really preparing. Before joining,…

You joined a giant megacorp. They’re all like that. There’s very little difference between Google and Oracle in this regard.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#248

Post by taeric »

chillacy wrote: post #223
taeric wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it? Because their strong data haven't helped them not screw up their messenger space. Or to have a fast email web client. Indeed, they seem to be going backwards on that chart. They flopped on wave and Google plus, hard. Those are the kinds of mistakes that kill most companies. Even Google glass still somewhat rankles and has left me with no confidence in any of their consumer things. And I say this as a happy G…

I don’t think those products failed due to poor engineering, google just hasn’t been great at social (if you don’t count YouTube). Other companies which use the same interview techniques are winning in those exact product spaces.

But, then what are they succeeding at? If engineering hasn't helped them not kill most of their products, what is it helping do?

And again, it is more than just social. ChomeOS? Even still a thing? How is android wear doing nowadays?

Again, I'm not claiming they are bad at engineering. I honestly don't feel qualified to judge. But I don't know that they are qualified to judge success of new hire, either. Their main success seems to be to simply suffocate the talent pipelines of the industry by hiring the top talent first. But not by actually using it.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#249

Post by heartbeats »

Cu3PO42 wrote: post #210
heartbeats wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's only really one place that can have these big tech companies, and that is the US. What technology companies of note do the UK have? It's just stupid nonsense like "writing spreadsheets for the local government" and minor web development. In tech, it really is US vs. ROW

ARM, for example? But let's assume for a second that the only relevant companies are US-based. A lot of them also hire in other countries and it is my understanding that compensation isn't what it is in the US either.

ARM have offices all over the world and are owned by the Japanese. The European "tech industry" is and remains a joke.

American companies also have offices all over the world. For example, Google have several offices in Africa. This does however not mean that Ghana has a booming tech industry, it just means that sometimes you need domestic offices for minor regulatory reasons.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#250

Post by enjoylife »

throwlaplace wrote: post #102
glofish wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the point is to see how people think, it is not so simple to regurgitate pre-learned answers when you alter a problem one small attribute at a time, in each case a different answer becomes optimal, thus you can see if the person understand what needs to be done or not

>the point is to see how people think i feel very strongly this is a disingenuous claim. clinical psychologists go to school for a long time to learn how to assess people's abilities to think. why should i believe that you a random software engineer have any competency whatsoever. in reality this is exactly the reason standardized exams (or standardized interviews such as leetcode style problems) exist - because aver…

Upon completion of the interview the problem would indeed look like the result of the leetcode problem. However the take away from the op is in how the question has a narrative. It enables a dialogue over time. Each sub problem provides n ways of exploring a solution. Each problem providing a sounding board for the candidate to pronounce their thoughts. Such questions are effective at providing more signal(read as talking out loud) from candidates.
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