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California’s housing crisis: how a bureaucrat pushed to build

nytimes.com

271–280 of 645 posts

Re: California’s housing crisis: how a bureaucrat pushed to build

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show the stats that Bay Area is building like crazy. I am so sick of people saying things like New York and Bay Area and California are building like crazy. No they are not. There is not one stat that shows that. Period.

I'm not sure about the Bay Area, but at least for New York, it looks like building is picking up: https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-sees-biggest-home-buil... "Despite a weak outlook for residential real estate, the number of building permits issued in New York City for new homes surged last year to the highest pace since 2015. It was the second-highest total since the end of the last big building boom in 2008. Pe…

It apparently has over 8 million units: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c...

So this is not even 0,5% of overall units.

Re: California’s housing crisis: how a bureaucrat pushed to build

#272
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you own a house, you don't want the prices to be driven down. If you had an idyllic childhood in a sleepy town not unlike Mayberry, it is entirely reasonable to want the same things for your kids. None of that is realistic anymore--the world is a changed place. But these are not irrational preferences to have.

Or you could have PTSD or just vanilla noise-sensitivity and just living in a quiet neighborhood could be extremely important to you. You might have made very significant personal sacrifices to afford to move to a suburb for exactly this reason. Should you just be forced to go live in the woods as a hermit, cast out by society?

You can sound proof a home. It's very common in NYC. Not everyone can live where they want. That's life.

Re: California’s housing crisis: how a bureaucrat pushed to build

#273
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is only in your backyard it is better for your property value in the long run: eventually someone will offer you a ton of money to replace your house with a large apartment complex. If it is everywhere that can build, than the builders can take whatever property comes up - and because they have to compete with other developers for renters they are likely to build smaller so on both counts property values don't…

That's what I don't understand, increasing density usually means price / sqft for all real estate in the area goes up. I often wonder if the analysis on why people shoot down zoning changes is incorrectly attributed to price or property tax, and is mostly people resisting any change.

Its pretty easy, your standard of living declines and sucks.

I grew up in a single family detached home in Queens, NY in the 80s as the shift to bigger condos and rentals started. The newer buildings are almost always shoddy and ugly, and dealing with landlords for property issues suck as compared to the homeowner.

Re: California’s housing crisis: how a bureaucrat pushed to build

#274

Go ahead and build, but make damn sure you are being rational about people's behavior when it comes to driving and transit. My ex moved into a condominium complex that has exactly zero parking spots or loading docks for visitors, and no parking for half a mile in either direction. It's an absolute total fail. Neighbors rat on each other to get each other's cars towed because they get so upset. It's literally impossib…

What's the name of this mythical city?

If the condo complex is sufficiently unattractive, few people will want to live there, and prices will fall to the point where buyers or renters accept the low price and the associated hassle. That's a market decision. If the condo complex is, let's imagine, 50% lower than market, then maybe people will accept the parking situation.

and there is no transit available anywhere near there

Then residents might try demanding it from the city government.

You may like this: https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Free-Parking-Updated/dp/193... book.

Re: California’s housing crisis: how a bureaucrat pushed to build

#275
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of us are homeowners. Speaking for myself, I simply believe affordable housing for all is more important than my property value.

There’s already plenty of places to build affordable housing. Nearly all of it is outside the Bay Area. But evidently, living in Modesto, or Bakersfield, or God forbid Kansas is some kind of horrible punishment, and it’s wrong to deny people the “right” to live near San Francisco.

I mean, I don't live in SF, but I spent a pretty good chunk of change to buy a house in the Boston area because I can't rationalize living in, say, northern New Hampshire, regardless of the savings. I value other things more that just don't exist there.

People want to live where there's culture and work. Why should they not?

Re: California’s housing crisis: how a bureaucrat pushed to build

#276

I completely agree with the sentiment to build more, much more housing. But, in order to make that happen, we also need to: - get rid of or modify zoning laws (at least in places where growth will happen) - reduce regulations on builders - ensure that there are plenty of builders for health competition (so that consumers don't get ripped off) - provide protections for builders from Sue happy NIMBYs (some kind of lega…

Home ownership generally slows growth for everything else around that area. Every home owner has this "not in my backyard" mentality and will veto any possible developments in their area.

If that’s the case - which I don’t doubt - why are we encouraging home ownership at all? One of the key metrics the article presents is the drop in home ownership. Wouldn’t encouraging renters be a potential solution?

Re: California’s housing crisis: how a bureaucrat pushed to build

#277
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from Texas, and I don't understand the stigma against developers building more housing. It drives down prices, and increases competition. Why would California citizens ever be against this? Edit: The reason is because homeowners are competing with developers, so their own asset depreciates when supply increases. I was just thinking from the perspective of renters.

Speaking as someone who lived in Bay Area California for a few years, and Texas for several decades now, the first thing to know if that not all California has the same attitude on this, for much the same reason that Waco and Austin have different attitudes on a lot of things. In the Bay Area, there are geographical (water and hills) limits to expansion, whereas in Texas when you build more, it usually is out into th…

> 1) made for high-income dwellers, thus not reducing prices, because the high-income and low-income housing markets are often effectively separate markets, like cars and semi-tractor trailors.

That doesn't seem right to me. Sure, the develpoers will have incentive to build the largest profit earning housing, which right now (because of a huge housing shortage for all pricing ranges) means building high-income housing. But a high-incomer earner that buys those stops competing for the fixer-upper middle income housing so that's good for other price ranges too. What's more, at some point you run out of high-income earners that will buy your expensive newly built property which requires dropping prices on existing built property _or_ starting to build the next most profitable housing, which is less profitable than before but you don't have a choice.

Now arguably, for all that to happen it takes time and the ability to build a large number of housing units, both of which may not be an option so I'm fine as a compromise to require for certain percentages of new housing to include tiers for lower pricing levels, as a requirement for the housing permit.

> 2) the people living nearby, do think it will drive down prices, including the price of their own house, which is their only effective form of savings.

There is a point where, as a society, you need to decide what's more important: giving existing owners 50%+ returns on their property or supporting new families moving in. As usual the answer is somewhere in the middle but I'm willing to bet it would go a lot against the current situation that the existing owners enjoy. After all, owning a house provides a lot of other benefits so as long as the increase in value covers for the cost (interest + taxes + maintenance) it seems fine to me.

Re: California’s housing crisis: how a bureaucrat pushed to build

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's good for the people "on the margins", those struggling to pay rent, or those at risk of homelessness, or those who might like to move to a more productive place for a better job. Please cite at lease one example in which this has ever been the case. I do understand the theory behind your argument here, and I assume you are familiar with (leftist) counter-arguments, so this is not an attempt to open a debate. Ra…

Demonizing landlords is not the answer. They did not get us into this mess. It's a distraction. Prices are set by the market.

What happens when the market is prevented from increasing supply by property owners collectively setting rules that prevent sufficient further growth?

I’m not saying this happened in California, but it’s what I think happened in the UK, where I am a landlord.

Re: California’s housing crisis: how a bureaucrat pushed to build

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's good for the people "on the margins", those struggling to pay rent, or those at risk of homelessness, or those who might like to move to a more productive place for a better job. Please cite at lease one example in which this has ever been the case. I do understand the theory behind your argument here, and I assume you are familiar with (leftist) counter-arguments, so this is not an attempt to open a debate. Ra…

You are absolutely correct that the root cause of the housing crisis is capitalism and the commodification of housing. However, a socialist restructuring of the entire housing market is not likely to happen any time soon. While we wait for the revolution, we might as well encourage the for-profit developers to build in the least destructive ways, so that less people suffer in the short term from the choked supply and…

[flagged]

Re: California’s housing crisis: how a bureaucrat pushed to build

#280
post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also a homeowner, and I'm a YIMBY (or PHIMBY) for selfish reasons as well. My neighborhood is mostly old white people, because they bought their houses years ago and stayed put. Hmm, here I am thinking I don't really care about the skin color of my neighbors. It's none of my business. But, I try and not judge people on immutable characteristics like color and age.

Age is very relevant for schools which are typically paid for with local property taxes. If you somehow find yourself moved to a so-called NORC, naturally occurring retirement community, you'll find that older people people with adult children on limited incomes are more reluctant to fund schools than say young working parents.

You're right. That's a good argument for funding schools with sources besides property taxes. That system intentionally subsidizes renters by getting home owners to pay for schools and tasks people who aren't concerned with the funding to make decisions on it.

edit: YES, it's a nice plan to just raise rent to cover the school taxes. However, unless you are in a popular market, your rent prices may not bear the increase. Example Northeastern PA has cheap rent because there are so many places available, and thus the $4000/yr in school tax portion of the property tax is not able to be passed on to renters.

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