no they didn't lol
unless you were a layman, but then, what are your expectations based on?
Self-driving cars turned out to be harder than expected
31–40 of 287 posts
Re: Self-driving cars turned out to be harder than expected
#32You have to wonder, when you see these stories, whether the engineers in charge of these programs spent much time driving around, trying to see the road like an AI might. In my experience, driving in the city, it's rare that I can go more than a few miles before some exception comes up that requires human judgment. Here's a few of the things I saw just last week: * Car double parked. Do I cross the center line to go…
> Cop directing traffic by hand at an intersection. That’s going to be really challenging. Good one!
I ran into this on my commute just last night. Cop car in the left shoulder, lights flashing. Cop on the right side of the road, waving a flashlight. Oncoming traffic crossing over into my lane and blocking my way. Finally I figured out that the cop was directing traffic and I had to wait until something changed. Eventually the oncoming traffic dwindled, and the cop turned around so I had a harder time seeing the flashlight - I assumed that meant it was my turn to go. I approached very slowly.
I never figured out what the problem was, this was in the middle of the road and not at an intersection. I was more concerned with doing the right thing than trying to determine the root cause.
Re: Self-driving cars turned out to be harder than expected
#33Alternate headline: Some people overstated how simple this problem was because they didn't know what they were talking about, could promote themselves as experts, could get funding for a self-driving startup or some combination of the above.
I guess that isn't as pithy but it's closer to the truth.
When it became clear that Uber's strategy (under Kalanick anyway) was premised on replacing drivers with AIs before the cash ran out I couldn't see general self-driving vehicles coming within 20 years. I still say that's true. AI assistance? Sure. But there's an uncanny valley there too where the AI will be good enough in most circumstances that drivers lose attention and people will die. You already see this with Tesla autopilot.
Here's a simple counterexample to the idea that self-driving cars are "just around the corner": in NYC, quite a few buildings have doormen. This is great for residents. Part of this is dealing with deliveries and so forth but there's also an issue of general security. People can sneak in (and I'm sure do) but just the fact that a human is there acts a strong (but not complete) deterrent. Just like having a dog is one of the most effective burglary deterrents.
What prevents a lot of bad actions on the roads is actually fear. Fear of what other drivers might do. Fear of road rage by other drivers. That sort of thing. This is just how humans work.
Once a driver knows the car next to them isn't driven by a person it changes their behaviour. They will do things they wouldn't do if it were a human behind the wheel, particularly because they know an AI won't ram them, cut them off, yell at them and whatever. There's no fear there. Even if there's a passenger in the car, it's still (psychologically) different.
How do you program around humans changing their behaviour to take advantage of there being no driver in your car?
Re: Self-driving cars turned out to be harder than expected
#34You have to wonder, when you see these stories, whether the engineers in charge of these programs spent much time driving around, trying to see the road like an AI might. In my experience, driving in the city, it's rare that I can go more than a few miles before some exception comes up that requires human judgment. Here's a few of the things I saw just last week: * Car double parked. Do I cross the center line to go…
And the amazing part is there are millions of drivers on the road right now that have absolutely no idea how to handle those cases, and do an exceedingly bad job of it.
From the very new drivers, to people who simply don't drive often, to people who got their license in another country where the rules are entirely different (me!), to the very elderly who are losing their sight, reflexes and judgement and people playing with their cell phone or otherwise seriously distracted.
It's a wonder only 35,000 people are killed on US roads every year.
Re: Self-driving cars turned out to be harder than expected
#35You have to wonder, when you see these stories, whether the engineers in charge of these programs spent much time driving around, trying to see the road like an AI might. In my experience, driving in the city, it's rare that I can go more than a few miles before some exception comes up that requires human judgment. Here's a few of the things I saw just last week: * Car double parked. Do I cross the center line to go…
IMHO cars are for getting between cities, or between places in non-cities; within a city, the economical long-term solution is to just replace the roads (save for cargo corridors) with some kind of pod rail network, i.e. self-driving four-seater trolleys. The exceptions become far fewer if there's nothing on the "road" but other rail-bound vehicles.
In such a future, if you lived in a city but owned your own real car, there'd be no road to use to drive it from your house to the city limits; and so it'd have to live at the city limits in a garage—just as people with personal planes have to keep them in a rented hanger at an airfield. You'd take this fancy pod-transit to the City Common Car Park, summon your car down from storage, and then get right onto the highway.
Re: Self-driving cars turned out to be harder than expected
#36It amazes me how Tesla can continue to just outright lie in their sales material about this. Right now you can purchase a brand new Model S with a "full self driving" package, even though no such thing exists, nor is there any timeline at all to when it will (if ever). Autopilot as it stands is nothing more than an advanced driver assist system with blindspot monitoring and automatic lane changing. Not even close to a level 3 system, let alone full autonomous.
Re: Self-driving cars turned out to be harder than expected
#37When I was starting my engineering career, it was right around when the first DARPA challenges had started. The hype was beginning, and my optimism towards technology was strong. I thought the predictions and timelines would be correct, and I still feel strongly that self-driving will be safer than humans in the long term. Recently, I bought a newer Subaru, with EyeSight. It has adaptive cruise and lane keep assist.…
I'm inclined that improving systems up to full autonomy for many highways in many weather conditions is a fairly realistic maybe 5-10 year plan. Which would actually be pretty nice and potentially a big win for safety.
The problem with widespread L4/5 is that you need to get to a car that can literally drive itself between 2 points on a map with a high degree of reliability, in a wide range of weather conditions, on roads of varying conditions, with unexpected/unmapped obstacles that may require doing something technically illegal to get around, without human help. And that, as you say, seems really hard.
Re: Self-driving cars turned out to be harder than expected
#38Alternate headline: Some people overstated how simple this problem was because they didn't know what they were talking about, could promote themselves as experts, could get funding for a self-driving startup or some combination of the above. I guess that isn't as pithy but it's closer to the truth. When it became clear that Uber's strategy (under Kalanick anyway) was premised on replacing drivers with AIs before the…
Counterpoint: personally I don't avoid doing things on the road from fear of the person behind the wheel but for fear that their reaction will cause an accident (swerving, slamming on the brakes, etc). Self driving cars have the same problem and honestly are probably less predictable.
This might be due to the fact that I don't really care much about road rage. At least where I live, the chance of someone getting out of their car and actually escalating it into a situation that matters is basically 0. When I lived in a major city, I felt the same way but for different reasons (most people in big cities Don't Have Time For That). But I can't imagine it's an isolated opinion.
Re: Self-driving cars turned out to be harder than expected
#39You have to wonder, when you see these stories, whether the engineers in charge of these programs spent much time driving around, trying to see the road like an AI might. In my experience, driving in the city, it's rare that I can go more than a few miles before some exception comes up that requires human judgment. Here's a few of the things I saw just last week: * Car double parked. Do I cross the center line to go…
And the amazing part is there are millions of drivers on the road right now that have absolutely no idea how to handle those cases, and do an exceedingly bad job of it. From the very new drivers, to people who simply don't drive often, to people who got their license in another country where the rules are entirely different (me!), to the very elderly who are losing their sight, reflexes and judgement and people playi…
> It's a wonder only 35,000 people are killed on US roads every year.
vs
> do an exceedingly bad job of it.
No, they're doing an amazingly good job of it. Given the cumulative number of miles driven and the conditions driven in it should impress you rather than that you come to the conclusion they are doing a very bad job. If the current crop of AI would be unleashed in those same conditions the carnage would be unbelievable. Humans are very well suited to adapting to changing environments, it is the one thing that we have over the rest of the animal kingdom. From hanging from tree limbs to riding on the autobahn with the same software.
Re: Self-driving cars turned out to be harder than expected
#40Any software dev worth their salt knew this was going to be a 90-90 problem.