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A radio frequency exposure test finds an iPhone 11 Pro exceeds the FCC's limit

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: A radio frequency exposure test finds an iPhone 11 Pro exceeds the FCC's limit

#61

Post by JshWright »

mopsi wrote: post #52
meekstro wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't it tested at 2mm if that is the standard useage? Why rely on a model? 20,000 phones are being sold an hour. Why not buy 200 phone's off 200 shelves and test them comprehensively at 0 mm, 1mm, 2mm, 3mm ..... The cost to volume sold is completely negligible and it is useful consumer information as 3 percent of the population is electrosensitive. An estimated 30 million people suffer from Myalgic Encephalomyel…

> Turn your wifi off in your house at night and see if you sleep any better. This needs to be a blind test, e.g. you track your sleep quality over a longer period of time while a script turns wifi off on random nights.

Does scientific rigor really seem like something the parent comment is concerned with?

Re: A radio frequency exposure test finds an iPhone 11 Pro exceeds the FCC's limit

#62

Post by gus_massa »

mopsi wrote: post #52
meekstro wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't it tested at 2mm if that is the standard useage? Why rely on a model? 20,000 phones are being sold an hour. Why not buy 200 phone's off 200 shelves and test them comprehensively at 0 mm, 1mm, 2mm, 3mm ..... The cost to volume sold is completely negligible and it is useful consumer information as 3 percent of the population is electrosensitive. An estimated 30 million people suffer from Myalgic Encephalomyel…

> Turn your wifi off in your house at night and see if you sleep any better. This needs to be a blind test, e.g. you track your sleep quality over a longer period of time while a script turns wifi off on random nights.

And you cover the green leds with tape mask, or get version with an accurate fake blinking patterns.

Re: A radio frequency exposure test finds an iPhone 11 Pro exceeds the FCC's limit

#63

Post by meekstro »

bananabreakfast wrote: post #55
meekstro wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't it tested at 2mm if that is the standard useage? Why rely on a model? 20,000 phones are being sold an hour. Why not buy 200 phone's off 200 shelves and test them comprehensively at 0 mm, 1mm, 2mm, 3mm ..... The cost to volume sold is completely negligible and it is useful consumer information as 3 percent of the population is electrosensitive. An estimated 30 million people suffer from Myalgic Encephalomyel…

Electrosensitivity is not a thing. It's a disorder made up by hypochondriacs. If you said 3 percent of the population are hypochondriacs then I would believe you.

Electrosensitivity is denied by intelligent healthy people who have never dealt with unexplainable fatigue relying on statistics and body system diagnosis that is inadequate for explaining chronic complex health conditions.

They're all just whinging man. Not one of them ever hoped it was all in their head and they could think their way out of it.

Hacker News is a perfect subset of people lacking the perspective to consider exploring the possibility that electrosensitivity is a thing that occurs with declining health.

Why so much negativity about researching something so ubiquitous? Let's discuss inverse power laws and quadratic functions, maybe we can build a machine learning model with our deficient statistics instead of taking two hundred phones out of two billion and testing their electromagnetic radiation at multiple distances and angles so we actually have a reliable model.

Re: A radio frequency exposure test finds an iPhone 11 Pro exceeds the FCC's limit

#64

Post by Dylan16807 »

kube-system wrote: post #53
Robotbeat wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sunlight shining on one side of a cube-shaped liter of flesh would be 10W/kg or so on average (and about 100W/kg if we consider the top 1cm). 1.6W/kg is a conservative limit.

I'd sure hope the exposure is orders of magnitude less than sunlight, considering how clear the dangers of sunlight are.

Why? The danger of sunlight is ultraviolet. That's only about 4% of sunlight.

Oh and it's worth mentioning that everything around you at room temperature is emitting 400 watts per square meter of infrared. That's almost as much infrared as you get from the sun (1kW total, roughly 4% ultraviolet, 53% infrared, 43% visible).

Re: A radio frequency exposure test finds an iPhone 11 Pro exceeds the FCC's limit

#65

Post by wizzwizz4 »

meekstro wrote: post #63
bananabreakfast wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electrosensitivity is not a thing. It's a disorder made up by hypochondriacs. If you said 3 percent of the population are hypochondriacs then I would believe you.

Electrosensitivity is denied by intelligent healthy people who have never dealt with unexplainable fatigue relying on statistics and body system diagnosis that is inadequate for explaining chronic complex health conditions. They're all just whinging man. Not one of them ever hoped it was all in their head and they could think their way out of it. Hacker News is a perfect subset of people lacking the perspective to co…

> Why so much negativity about researching something so ubiquitous?

There's nothing wrong with researching electrosensitivity to see if it's real, and to what extent. Heck, I've designed studies to test it (never carried out). The problem is not researching it, yet continuing to insist that it is the reason for people's "unexplainable" chronic pain / fatigue when there's currently zero non-anecdotal evidence for it.

Re: A radio frequency exposure test finds an iPhone 11 Pro exceeds the FCC's limit

#66

Post by kube-system »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #64
kube-system wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd sure hope the exposure is orders of magnitude less than sunlight, considering how clear the dangers of sunlight are.

Why? The danger of sunlight is ultraviolet. That's only about 4% of sunlight. Oh and it's worth mentioning that everything around you at room temperature is emitting 400 watts per square meter of infrared. That's almost as much infrared as you get from the sun (1kW total, roughly 4% ultraviolet, 53% infrared, 43% visible).

You're absolutely right, different wavelengths of EMR have wildly different effects on humans, so the comparison falls short that way as well.

Re: A radio frequency exposure test finds an iPhone 11 Pro exceeds the FCC's limit

#67

Post by wizzwizz4 »

mopsi wrote: post #52
meekstro wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't it tested at 2mm if that is the standard useage? Why rely on a model? 20,000 phones are being sold an hour. Why not buy 200 phone's off 200 shelves and test them comprehensively at 0 mm, 1mm, 2mm, 3mm ..... The cost to volume sold is completely negligible and it is useful consumer information as 3 percent of the population is electrosensitive. An estimated 30 million people suffer from Myalgic Encephalomyel…

> Turn your wifi off in your house at night and see if you sleep any better. This needs to be a blind test, e.g. you track your sleep quality over a longer period of time while a script turns wifi off on random nights.

And make sure that phones aren't getting messages and bleeping during the night when wifi is on.

Re: A radio frequency exposure test finds an iPhone 11 Pro exceeds the FCC's limit

#68

Post by TaylorAlexander »

swiley wrote: post #7
jolmg wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This an advertisement for their RF phone cases This is on ieee.org. The article mentioned this[1] other test by the Chicago Tribune. This isn't purely an advertisement though it serves that purpose a bit. It's disputed because they only tested 2 iPhones. > There are reasons to take the results with a grain of salt, however. McCaughey clarified that Penumbra supplied RF Exposure Labs with one iPhone 7 and one iPhone…

A lot of these smartphones go through imperical tests in an anechoic chamber managed by a third party lab to see if they’re bellow the allowed levels in each band. That sounds hackish but (IMO) isn’t the end of the world. What weirds me out is that they’ll send them to these third party labs and repeatedly test some small number (possibly one) of devices until it’s right up against what’s allowed. That feels less tha…

I’m sure Apple has their own test chambers.

Re: A radio frequency exposure test finds an iPhone 11 Pro exceeds the FCC's limit

#69

Post by doubleunplussed »

jws wrote: post #4

Testing phones from 5 millimeters away from the body may seem close, but for anyone carrying their phone in a pocket, the distance is closer to 2 millimeters. Because wireless power falls off exponentially with distance, what might be a safe amount of RF exposure at 5 millimeters could be much higher at 2 millimeters. They mean to say that you should expect a power about 6 times higher, (5^2 / 2^2). This is rubbish.…

FWIW when you're closer to an antenna than the wavelength, you're not just seeing normal Gauss's law drop off, you can be looking an an evanescent wave [1], which does indeed fall off exponentially (well, depends on the exact shape of the antenna).

I've designed a short-range 'antenna' that is intentionally not impedance matched to the vacuum, and radiates very poorly - but the RF intensity close to the antenna is very high because of this effect.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evanescent_field

Re: A radio frequency exposure test finds an iPhone 11 Pro exceeds the FCC's limit

#70

Post by kempbellt »

bananabreakfast wrote: post #55
meekstro wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't it tested at 2mm if that is the standard useage? Why rely on a model? 20,000 phones are being sold an hour. Why not buy 200 phone's off 200 shelves and test them comprehensively at 0 mm, 1mm, 2mm, 3mm ..... The cost to volume sold is completely negligible and it is useful consumer information as 3 percent of the population is electrosensitive. An estimated 30 million people suffer from Myalgic Encephalomyel…

Electrosensitivity is not a thing. It's a disorder made up by hypochondriacs. If you said 3 percent of the population are hypochondriacs then I would believe you.

I don't doubt that psychosoma and hypochondria play a role in many cases, but I will posit a couple of scenarios for you to ponder.

You can sense heat, can't you? If your phone is really warm in your pocket, will you notice? Higher output from the radios = more electricity flowing = more heat generation. You will likely notice this.

On another note, do you have eyes? They are sensitive to various frequencies of electromagnetic radiation (i.e, the visible spectrum). Some people are more attuned to the outer edges of this (infrared, and ultra-violet).

Seems a bit aggressive to dismiss all electrosensitivity as "not a thing", considering people are obviously very sensitive to different forms of EMR.

If you disagree, try standing in a fire, or sleeping with a spotlight on your face.

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