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The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

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Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#221

Post by WoahNoun »

throwawei wrote: post #199
jorblumesea wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, don't you see the connection between their risk high investments and the IP they've stolen from US companies? If anything, Huawei made its name of stealing from Nortel, Cisco, etc. Not to mention, questionable ties to the CCP. If they have R&D money to burn, it's because they've saved billions on R&D because they stole it. To see them as "good actor" because of a token $200k, while stealing literally tens of bil…

I think the stealing instead of R&D thing is somewhat misled. These guys are definitely spending billions on research as well. I get the concern, and fines and punishment is all fine. But I think they might also have got caught in the geopolitical crossfire. It's a messy world; Samsung and Apple are stealing eachother's billions everyday, Google and Facebook are spying on us, DOD is killing people. I don't know who i…

They stole IP from western companies so they could reach the bleeding edge and then spent billions on R&D research to get ahead. Without the decades of IP theft, the R&D achievements never happen. No western company should trust their 5G equipment.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#222

Post by emmelaich »

thorowawaytoga wrote: post #176

In a small town in Israel, called Hod Hasharon there was a company named "Toga Networks". This company was paying as twice as you currenly earn, if you work at Cisco or Juniper. Just like that, as twice as, just ocme work with us. One year went by, and it turned out that Toga Network is no other than Huawei. So I do not know about stealing source code, but I know they looked after its IP which is in people's mind.

What year was that?

Huawei bought Toga in 2016.

https://venturebeat.com/2016/12/07/huawei-reportedly-acquire...

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#223

Post by thorowawaytoga »

emmelaich wrote: post #222
thorowawaytoga wrote: post #176

In a small town in Israel, called Hod Hasharon there was a company named "Toga Networks". This company was paying as twice as you currenly earn, if you work at Cisco or Juniper. Just like that, as twice as, just ocme work with us. One year went by, and it turned out that Toga Network is no other than Huawei. So I do not know about stealing source code, but I know they looked after its IP which is in people's mind.

What year was that? Huawei bought Toga in 2016. https://venturebeat.com/2016/12/07/huawei-reportedly-acquire...

Toga started 2008. Was owned 100% by Huawei - in a chain of holdings. The came out of the closet in 2016 once established.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#224

Post by Ardren »

thorowawaytoga wrote: post #176

In a small town in Israel, called Hod Hasharon there was a company named "Toga Networks". This company was paying as twice as you currenly earn, if you work at Cisco or Juniper. Just like that, as twice as, just ocme work with us. One year went by, and it turned out that Toga Network is no other than Huawei. So I do not know about stealing source code, but I know they looked after its IP which is in people's mind.

Are you saying Toga Networks was always Huawei and they hid that fact, or that 7 years after they were founded Huawei just bought them? (like it says on the front page of their website [1])

[1] - http://toganetworks.com/

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#225

Post by thorowawaytoga »

Aperocky wrote: post #205
thorowawaytoga wrote: post #176

In a small town in Israel, called Hod Hasharon there was a company named "Toga Networks". This company was paying as twice as you currenly earn, if you work at Cisco or Juniper. Just like that, as twice as, just ocme work with us. One year went by, and it turned out that Toga Network is no other than Huawei. So I do not know about stealing source code, but I know they looked after its IP which is in people's mind.

> IP which is in peoples mind I think a general term for acquiring that IP is called employment.

when you target crowd from 2 specific companies and offer 2x market value salaries it is more aggressive than just "employment".

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#226

Post by thorowawaytoga »

Ardren wrote: post #224
thorowawaytoga wrote: post #176

In a small town in Israel, called Hod Hasharon there was a company named "Toga Networks". This company was paying as twice as you currenly earn, if you work at Cisco or Juniper. Just like that, as twice as, just ocme work with us. One year went by, and it turned out that Toga Network is no other than Huawei. So I do not know about stealing source code, but I know they looked after its IP which is in people's mind.

Are you saying Toga Networks was always Huawei and they hid that fact, or that 7 years after they were founded Huawei just bought them? (like it says on the front page of their website [1]) [1] - http://toganetworks.com/

exactly that. was told so during interviews back in 2011.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#227

Post by dba7dba »

sand_castles wrote: post #157
tatrajim wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note how all comments citing US industrial espionage fail to mention that the young U.S. was at war with Great Britain from 1776-83 and again in 1812 when the Brits burned much of Washington, D.C. is the contemporary parallel that China is now asserting they are at war with the U.S. and therefore can appropriate technology at will?

Same thing can be said about the US trying to overthrow the CCP during Mao when they banned food export during their great famine to try and trigger a revolution to remove them from power. Invaded Chinese sovereign territory during the Korean war and got beat back into the current border of South Korea. Supported a western friendly government during WW2 to take over China. In International relations there are no rule…

Invaded Chinese sovereign territory during the Korean war and got beat back into the current border of South Korea.

I am pretty sure US did not invade Chinese territory during the Korean War. There are a few instances of US fighters straying into China but pretty sure it wouldn't count as 'invasion'.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#229

Post by johnchristopher »

sangnoir wrote: post #212
johnchristopher wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We left the 18th and 19th century a long time ago. It's not disingenuous to single out China for this behavior since China is one of the biggest player doing it and reaping so much from it in our time. Plus, whataboutism.

> We left the 18th and 19th century a long time ago. So? It's not like the US didn't know that it was breaking British laws back then. IP protectionism is nothing new, it is is fair to make comparisons to 18th/19th century events.

It all depends of what you make of that comparison.

Are you saying it's okay because others did it before ? That it shouldn't be debated ?

What's the position ? What is the point of preventing people from saying China is playing the IP theft game hard at the moment ?

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#230

Post by jariel »

nimbius wrote: post #21
nostromo wrote: post #18

> The DoJ alleges that Huawei and a number of its affiliates used confidential agreements with American companies over the past two decades to access the trade secrets of those companies, only to then misappropriate that intellectual property and use it to fund Huawei’s business. These American companies thought they could build their products for a fraction of the price in China and increase margins. They didn't sto…

in a lot of cases the low-cost competitors are not only lower cost but have more features and/or better performance. They side-step a lot of the planned obsolescence and intentional feature scarcity US companies have become so dependent on to avoid meaningful R&D. Its hard not to see a lot of them as sort of a Robin Hood. On topic though, Most of the pot-banging from Washington is at the behest of AT&T and other US c…

This is not true and implies a misunderstanding of the industry.

AT&T, like most carriers, is perfectly happy to get super cheap and gear from China, at a fraction of the price they'd pay otherwise.

In fact, carriers around the world are the one's pushing to use Huawei.

Second - the US doesn't really have any capabilities in the 5G space, for the most part. It's European companies: Erikson and Nokia that have capabilities. Cisco, Lucent etc. are not even on the radar on this issue.

Given that your position is completely at odds with the reality of the market, you'll have to provide some material evidence of your claim that the US is just up in a fuss over their lack of dominance of 5G, otherwise, they just don't seem true.

Once again, all of this narrative misleads us from the real underlying issue, which is that Huawei and others have been systematically and openly stealing property.

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