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Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

latimes.com

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Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#61

Post by sjwright »

JohnFen wrote: post #22
michaelhoffman wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple argues that it's not required because you aren't required to be searched, it's only if an employee freely chooses to use the ~~~privilege~~~ of taking your personal items to work that they are searched. You can always come to work with nothing and not be searched. I think this argument is BS and it looks like so did the California Supreme Court. Apple argues that this choice is of benefit only to the employees…

As you say, Apple's argument is ludicrous on its face (as the court pointed out) because Apple also requires employees to wear special clothing at work, and are forbidden from wearing that clothing off-premises. So employees must carry that clothing to work with them. I suppose that doesn't mean that they have to put it in a container, but that's a real stretch of an argument that the court also rejected.

And that really hinges on who is responsible for laundering said uniforms. If the employee is responsible for laundering, it is ridiculous for Apple to expect employees to not bring a personal bag to work.

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#62

Post by dhbanes »

FriendlyNormie wrote: post #53
jrockway wrote: post #15

> Employees are supposed to find a manager or security officer to do the searches after they clock out. Employees estimate that waiting for and undergoing the searches can take five to 20 minutes, or, on busiest days, up to 45 minutes. This also seems to be their process for picking up orders at the store. It's pure chaos, and I find it at least somewhat amusing that at least Apple treats their employees and customer…

Does Apple really have a “process” for picking items up? I ordered a maxed out iMac Pro for around $15,000 and waited nearly a month for it to finally arrive at the store. I got a voice mail and an email instructing me to come pick it up. Only upon driving all the way to the store was I finally informed in person that they “accidentally” gave my iMac Pro to the wrong customer an hour ago who had merely ordered a base…

Ship it to your office, private mail box, or home?

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#63

Post by sjwright »

phibz wrote: post #24
olliej wrote: post #4

Omg, I still can't believe that was in any doubt. If you are required to be at work, then you should be paid for that time. Just because you aren't "working" does change that the business is requiring you to be there. If nothing else this should push them to make leaving work not take 20- 45 minutes. WTF. How does anyone think it's acceptable to [funcitonally] detain people.

Clearly someone thought it was unfair enough to take Apple to court over it. Workers rights has always been a struggle but this sort of behavior has been trending up over the last 20 years. From the "permatemp" jobs to the new no benefits "gig economy" it's worrying. I'm and experienced software developer and even I have seen this sort of thing. I worked for a company out of San Jose. I was hired full-time with benef…

> I went 4 months without pay.

Were you still expected to show up anywhere or perform any duties? How was the situation any different to being unemployed?

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#64

Post by matz1 »

eropple wrote: post #31
matz1 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How does anyone think it's acceptable to [funcitonally] detain people From the business perspective, provided they can get a way with it, it is just another business decision, namely reducing cost and increasing profit. I would do the same.

Alternatively, you could treat people like people and give them an actual measure of respect instead of stealing time and money from them. But, frankly, literally every time without exception that I remember seeing you post, it's been a variation on the theme of "of course they shouldn't be decent, why should they, I shouldn't have to be decent either", so I'm going to pass on being surprised.

>Alternatively, you could treat people like people and give them an actual measure of respect instead of stealing time and money from them

Thats depends on what one value, if you think treat people like people is important then yes you should do it but if one value profit then doing what apple did make sense.

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#65

Post by tqkxzugoaupvwqr »

FriendlyNormie wrote: post #53
jrockway wrote: post #15

> Employees are supposed to find a manager or security officer to do the searches after they clock out. Employees estimate that waiting for and undergoing the searches can take five to 20 minutes, or, on busiest days, up to 45 minutes. This also seems to be their process for picking up orders at the store. It's pure chaos, and I find it at least somewhat amusing that at least Apple treats their employees and customer…

Does Apple really have a “process” for picking items up? I ordered a maxed out iMac Pro for around $15,000 and waited nearly a month for it to finally arrive at the store. I got a voice mail and an email instructing me to come pick it up. Only upon driving all the way to the store was I finally informed in person that they “accidentally” gave my iMac Pro to the wrong customer an hour ago who had merely ordered a base…

Can you get it delivered directly to your home/business? Might be a solution.

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#66

Post by fingerlocks »

FriendlyNormie wrote: post #53
jrockway wrote: post #15

> Employees are supposed to find a manager or security officer to do the searches after they clock out. Employees estimate that waiting for and undergoing the searches can take five to 20 minutes, or, on busiest days, up to 45 minutes. This also seems to be their process for picking up orders at the store. It's pure chaos, and I find it at least somewhat amusing that at least Apple treats their employees and customer…

Does Apple really have a “process” for picking items up? I ordered a maxed out iMac Pro for around $15,000 and waited nearly a month for it to finally arrive at the store. I got a voice mail and an email instructing me to come pick it up. Only upon driving all the way to the store was I finally informed in person that they “accidentally” gave my iMac Pro to the wrong customer an hour ago who had merely ordered a base…

Or perhaps an incompetent employee really just gave it to the wrong customer? Maybe they were tired and distracted after a long day at their insufferable retail job? Maybe someone forgot to put your identifying sticker on the box?

Seems unlikely that hussle pulled on you would work more than once, ever.

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#67

Post by speedgoose »

FriendlyNormie wrote: post #53
jrockway wrote: post #15

> Employees are supposed to find a manager or security officer to do the searches after they clock out. Employees estimate that waiting for and undergoing the searches can take five to 20 minutes, or, on busiest days, up to 45 minutes. This also seems to be their process for picking up orders at the store. It's pure chaos, and I find it at least somewhat amusing that at least Apple treats their employees and customer…

Does Apple really have a “process” for picking items up? I ordered a maxed out iMac Pro for around $15,000 and waited nearly a month for it to finally arrive at the store. I got a voice mail and an email instructing me to come pick it up. Only upon driving all the way to the store was I finally informed in person that they “accidentally” gave my iMac Pro to the wrong customer an hour ago who had merely ordered a base…

If you need a bodyguard when you buy a new computer, perhaps it's a sign that you are spending a bit too much money on it.

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#68

Post by Wowfunhappy »

mzs wrote: post #18
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #7

Note this is in California. At the US, level, 5 years ago, the Supreme Court ruled that Amazon did not have to pay its workers for the time spent waiting for screening. Excerpt from the NY Times article about that decision: WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court on Tuesday ruled unanimously that a temp agency was not required to pay workers at Amazon warehouses for the time they spent waiting to go through a security screeni…

more context >…The U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, where the case is now pending, asked the California Supreme Court to clarify whether state law requires compensation. … >A federal district court judge ruled in favor of Apple, deciding that workers had to prove they not only were restrained from leaving but that there was no way to avoid having personal items searched. >Apple said it could prohibit employees from…

> Apple said it could prohibit employees from bringing any bags or personal Apple devices into its stores altogether but gave them that benefit.

What if you have asthma and need to keep an inhaler? Or one of the numerous other medical conditions that also necessitate keeping an item on hand.

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#69

Post by JohnFen »

matz1 wrote: post #51
JohnFen wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is just another business decision, namely reducing cost and increasing profit. And effectively stealing from their employees. > I would do the same. You would steal from your employees too?

> You would steal from your employees too? if the benefit > risk/cost then absolutely.

I hope that I never accidentally work for or do business with one of your companies, then.

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#70

Post by matz1 »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #47
matz1 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How does anyone think it's acceptable to [funcitonally] detain people From the business perspective, provided they can get a way with it, it is just another business decision, namely reducing cost and increasing profit. I would do the same.

Grinding up babies into a fine powder might be profitable too, just another business decision,provided they can get away with it.

Yes its simply cost/benefit analysis.
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