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Whom am I speaking with?

olark.com

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Re: Whom am I speaking with?

#31

Post by DanielBMarkham »

lmkg wrote: post #19
imperialWicket wrote: post #10

The winner is: With whom am I speaking? You wouldn't say, "The car am I driving in?". And you should avoid dangling prepositions. If your sentence (or clause) ends in a preposition, it is either extraneous, or your sentence requires rewording.

Terminal prepositions are poor Latin , but they are perfectly acceptable English . The prejudice against terminal prepositions (and split infinitives, as well as such abominations as the s in island) came from a period in English linguistics where a bunch of grammarians thought that English wasn't dignified enough, and tried to pretend that it was a Romance language by shoehorning the language into awkward and ungain…

That was very eloquent, thanks for sharing.

I watched a series of college lectures on the history of language a couple of years ago, and that was one of the main points the lecturer made. Growing up in a traditional school system, I had never really thought about it that way.

Having said that, there is also a "high" and "low" version of most languages. The "high" version is full of obtuse rules and associated behaviors, while the "low" version is more catch-as-catch can.

So yes, you are correct: enjoy the art of your native tongue! I love screwing around with the rules. But also be aware that the culture you are in may prescribe all sorts of silly little rules, and knowing these -- and when to apply them -- can drastically affect other people's perception of your character. Whether we like that fact or not.

One of the things I wish I had more time for is the study of languages and the philosophy of languages. It has direct application in everything from AI to talking to Dolphins to programming projects. Really cool stuff.

Re: Whom am I speaking with?

#32

Post by danilocampos »

blahedo wrote: post #29
imperialWicket wrote: post #10

The winner is: With whom am I speaking? You wouldn't say, "The car am I driving in?". And you should avoid dangling prepositions. If your sentence (or clause) ends in a preposition, it is either extraneous, or your sentence requires rewording.

Bull. There is no credible linguist that will argue that sentence-ending prepositions are either invalid or even uncommon in English, whether spoken or written. There are some who prescribe this rule, due to nothing more than their personal aesthetic, and vilify those who violate it; but it is not a rule that competent speakers or writers of the language follow, and indeed those that propagate the so-called "rule" ar…

As long as we're indulging in English pedantry,

> There is no credible linguist that will argue...

who will argue ;)

Re: Whom am I speaking with?

#33

Post by tomjen3 »

imperialWicket wrote: post #10

The winner is: With whom am I speaking? You wouldn't say, "The car am I driving in?". And you should avoid dangling prepositions. If your sentence (or clause) ends in a preposition, it is either extraneous, or your sentence requires rewording.

This is the sort of English up with which I will not put.

http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/churchill.html

Re: Whom am I speaking with?

#34

Post by bcx »

pluies wrote: post #27

Okay, grammatical quibbles aside, this blog post is scary . Harvesting that much information about your customers is creepy and dangerous. I don't care that it helps your business or that it's technically feasible, it's just wrong.

I'd like to understand more of your concerns.

Olark just help website owners take the information they already have about you (and that you gave to them), and use it to provide better service.

So if your logged into a website and ask a question the operator doesn't have to ask you for your username again (the website already knows it -- why shouldn't the person helping you)

Most of this parallels what goes on in the real world. If you often shop at the same store the clerks will start to recognize you and give you more personal service -- Olark just lets small business owners do the same online.

Re: Whom am I speaking with?

#36

Post by huhtenberg »

pluies wrote: post #27

Okay, grammatical quibbles aside, this blog post is scary . Harvesting that much information about your customers is creepy and dangerous. I don't care that it helps your business or that it's technically feasible, it's just wrong.

Definitely, that's why Olark has been firmly sitting on my AdBlock blacklist from the first time I ran into them.

Re: Whom am I speaking with?

#37

Post by btilly »

pluies wrote: post #27

Okay, grammatical quibbles aside, this blog post is scary . Harvesting that much information about your customers is creepy and dangerous. I don't care that it helps your business or that it's technically feasible, it's just wrong.

I am puzzled at why this comment is so popular.

You have a website. With a login form. People gave you information about themselves. They are contacting you from your website which they are logged in to.

Exactly what is creepy and dangerous about having the information that they gave you knowing that it would be stored in your system be presented to you when they use your service to contact you??? Guess what, odds are that they are going to do something like ask about the status of an order that they made, and you're going to pull up the account and have information about that as well! If you can't, then you're incompetent and can't provide good customer support.

Really, I understand privacy as much as, and probably more than, the next guy. (I'm one of the rare people who cares enough about mine to have avoided Facebook.) But really, this is bog normal for what happens when you contact customer support at any competent place. Any place that doesn't have the ability to get at information like this is going to have customer support so bad that you won't want to go back.

Re: Whom am I speaking with?

#38

Post by jmulho »

blahedo wrote: post #24
tspiteri wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the article get it right? If the answer can be "him", the question should be "whom", and if the answer can be "he", the question should be "who". Having said that, "Whom am I speaking with?" does sound pretty weird, "With whom am I speaking?" sounds much better.

That was the traditional rule, but in modern English, "whom" is a particularly marked usage anywhere except as the immediate object of a pronoun. "With whom am I speaking?" sounds formal but fine; "Who am I speaking with?" (or "...to?") is also fine. The form given in the title here is at best overly formal and stilted. What makes it weird is that it mixes the formal not-after-a-preposition "whom" with a sentence-end…

Right. "With whom am I speaking"? sounds stuffy at the beach. "Who am I speaking with?" sounds lazy at the opera. "Whom am I speaking with?" just sounds confused.

A similar example that annoys me is the American pronunciation of the wine Pinot Noir ("PEE-no NWAR"). I say make up your mind. It is either "PEE-no NWA" as in French, or "PEE-not NWAR". The mixed pronunciation just sounds confused. Plus, it goes great with peanuts.

Re: Whom am I speaking with?

#39

Post by bcx »

huhtenberg wrote: post #36
pluies wrote: post #27

Okay, grammatical quibbles aside, this blog post is scary . Harvesting that much information about your customers is creepy and dangerous. I don't care that it helps your business or that it's technically feasible, it's just wrong.

Definitely, that's why Olark has been firmly sitting on my AdBlock blacklist from the first time I ran into them.

Do you also block Google Analytics?

Re: Whom am I speaking with?

#40

Post by endtime »

Semiapies wrote: post #16
imperialWicket wrote: post #10

The winner is: With whom am I speaking? You wouldn't say, "The car am I driving in?". And you should avoid dangling prepositions. If your sentence (or clause) ends in a preposition, it is either extraneous, or your sentence requires rewording.

If you're pretending that English is a Romance language, that's a valid concern. Alternately, just go with "Who am I talking to?"

That doesn't solve anything - "to" is still a preposition and the "Who" in your sentence should still be "Whom".
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