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The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

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Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#51

Post by virtue3 »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #42
nostromo wrote: post #18

> The DoJ alleges that Huawei and a number of its affiliates used confidential agreements with American companies over the past two decades to access the trade secrets of those companies, only to then misappropriate that intellectual property and use it to fund Huawei’s business. These American companies thought they could build their products for a fraction of the price in China and increase margins. They didn't sto…

> It's hard to feel too sorry for these companies. It's not exactly a secret that this is how China operates You mean every developing nation? Just look at U.S. industrial espionage in Europe during the 18th-19th century when it was developing. Pretending this is somehow how China specifically operates is disingenuous.

No no no, those are American HEROES sir.

https://www.history.com/news/industrial-revolution-spies-eur...

/s

But very good point.

I feel like military tech is another issue entirely tho. And concerns me with what I'm perceiving as an arms race with carriers and fighter jets over I presume China's ability to project power within their naval territory .

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#52

Post by apsec112 »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #32

>Charges also Reveal Huawei’s Business in North Korea and Assistance to the Government of Iran in Performing Domestic Surveillance // Surely evidence would reveal that, but this DOJ press release doesn't appear to be concerned with that. >As revealed by the government’s independent investigation and review of court filings, // Mwah-ha-ha-ha! They know how to tell 'em. >the new charges in this case relate to the alleg…

All indictments are written like this. Of course the prosecution thinks the defendant is guilty, that's why they're bringing the charges. In an adversarial legal system, it's their job to make the case for guilt.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#53

Post by sunstone »

Pretty clearly Huawei is now the cow that the US and China will be fighting over. Meng is now likely to be caught up in this as well regardless of how the current charges go. The US standing right up to China and punching it the nose. It's an inflection point for the world economy.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#54

Post by tharne »

AYBABTME wrote: post #48
tharne wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of the pot-banging from Washington is at the behest of AT&T and other US carrier/handset/chip companies who are rightly livid that Huawei made it to market with 5G before they had a chance to monopolize it. Nope. Pretty sure most of the issue has to do with the spying, backdoors, and overall lack of ethics. This is the from same country that brought us a potential global pandemic because they spent weeks lying…

Do you think other countries would have done better? I'm personally impressed with how decisively China has been handling this pandemic. Don't mean to go off topic, but general China bashing isn't productive. Lumping together all China related topics as if it was all the grand project of an evil mastermind is only good in the movies.

> I'm personally impressed with how decisively China has been handling this pandemic.

You mean like how they muzzled one of the first doctors who tried to warn the public about it, and then that doctor later died of the virus? Very impressive, if that's how you roll.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#55

Post by frankharv »

AYBABTME wrote: post #48
tharne wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of the pot-banging from Washington is at the behest of AT&T and other US carrier/handset/chip companies who are rightly livid that Huawei made it to market with 5G before they had a chance to monopolize it. Nope. Pretty sure most of the issue has to do with the spying, backdoors, and overall lack of ethics. This is the from same country that brought us a potential global pandemic because they spent weeks lying…

Do you think other countries would have done better? I'm personally impressed with how decisively China has been handling this pandemic. Don't mean to go off topic, but general China bashing isn't productive. Lumping together all China related topics as if it was all the grand project of an evil mastermind is only good in the movies.

Yes. Especially ones with Free Speech. China literally arrested a doctor for warning his colleagues. I have never heard of anything like that in the Free World.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#56

Post by sidlls »

mandelbrotwurst wrote: post #47
cycrutchfield wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a consumer, that may be good in the short term. But innovation isn’t free. In a world where people can just copy other people’s hard work with impunity, what incentive is there to invest in innovation?

Being first to market has its advantages.

Shrinking advantages as the delta-t between release and the appearance of dozens of stolen cheap knockoffs decreases.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#57

Post by benaadams »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #39
nimbius wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in a lot of cases the low-cost competitors are not only lower cost but have more features and/or better performance. They side-step a lot of the planned obsolescence and intentional feature scarcity US companies have become so dependent on to avoid meaningful R&D. Its hard not to see a lot of them as sort of a Robin Hood. On topic though, Most of the pot-banging from Washington is at the behest of AT&T and other US c…

As a consumer, that may be good in the short term. But innovation isn’t free. In a world where people can just copy other people’s hard work with impunity, what incentive is there to invest in innovation?

I hear OSS is doing well when it comes to innovation...

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#58

Post by goodcjw2 »

tharne wrote: post #43
nostromo wrote: post #18

> The DoJ alleges that Huawei and a number of its affiliates used confidential agreements with American companies over the past two decades to access the trade secrets of those companies, only to then misappropriate that intellectual property and use it to fund Huawei’s business. These American companies thought they could build their products for a fraction of the price in China and increase margins. They didn't sto…

> It's hard to feel too sorry for these companies. It's not exactly a secret that this is how China operates and has operated for a very long time. I see this as a win-win. These U.S. companies tried to take shortcuts by outsourcing to China and they got burned. China engaged in all sorts of unethical and illegal behavior in the process and will (hopefully) get burned.

Isn't this a lose-lose situation instead?

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#59

Post by sidlls »

AYBABTME wrote: post #48
tharne wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of the pot-banging from Washington is at the behest of AT&T and other US carrier/handset/chip companies who are rightly livid that Huawei made it to market with 5G before they had a chance to monopolize it. Nope. Pretty sure most of the issue has to do with the spying, backdoors, and overall lack of ethics. This is the from same country that brought us a potential global pandemic because they spent weeks lying…

Do you think other countries would have done better? I'm personally impressed with how decisively China has been handling this pandemic. Don't mean to go off topic, but general China bashing isn't productive. Lumping together all China related topics as if it was all the grand project of an evil mastermind is only good in the movies.

Yes, other countries—specifically ones with more open and free societies—tend to do better on this and numerous other issues. Most of China’s current economic position is due to two factors: 1) the population numbers game; 2) the theft of others’ work (it’s debatable which has been more critical).

I wouldn’t care about China’s economic ascendance or even that they used thievery to get it if the country weren’t an oppressive dictatorship. This isn’t merely a cultural difference: China’s government is absolutely something anybody who values freedom and egalitarianism should be in opposition to.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#60

Post by blackrock »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #39
nimbius wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in a lot of cases the low-cost competitors are not only lower cost but have more features and/or better performance. They side-step a lot of the planned obsolescence and intentional feature scarcity US companies have become so dependent on to avoid meaningful R&D. Its hard not to see a lot of them as sort of a Robin Hood. On topic though, Most of the pot-banging from Washington is at the behest of AT&T and other US c…

As a consumer, that may be good in the short term. But innovation isn’t free. In a world where people can just copy other people’s hard work with impunity, what incentive is there to invest in innovation?

This is a tiring trope.

It’s like how the music industry kept saying that people would no longer sing and make songs, because piracy would prevent them from doing so. As if there was no money to be made, and money was the only point of singing. As if piracy ever stopped people from singing for the past 10,000 years.

Well, artists do make money from songs, by having concerts. They are selling the service and the experience of of a live performance. This was the way that it had always been done throughout human history.

Or Apple for example, they don’t make money from selling software, but they make it from selling very expensive hardware, that they force to expire after a few years.

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