Live data from Hacker News

Popular preprint servers face closure because of money troubles

nature.com

21–30 of 39 posts

Re: Popular preprint servers face closure because of money troubles

#21
post #4

TBH the numbers seem exceptionally high to me. Is there something I'm missing? Hosting a few thousand PDF files that are probably only downloaded by a handful of people shouldn't cost thousands of dollars.

I think the best way to understand the numbers would be to look at the breakdown of costs. Two links that were shared from the twitter thread discussing this might be useful:

Preprints cost (projected vs actuals): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1V0vKrf50K667CqM3e4S2...

Org finances: https://cos.io/about/our-finances/

A few things stand out: 1. Preprints are pretty new. You're not just hosting PDFs on an s3 bucket in maintenance mode- you're also wrangling authors with very different workflows to use your platform. This means building tools for moderation or retraction, and long handholding to recruit 26 partner groups, some of them started as grassroots efforts without their own institutional history. Each group may have their own ideas about governance. (each research field may do things in different ways)

2. In that light, the projected personnel costs are.... not high. The spreadsheet claims that 22% of page traffic going to preprints, but the original 2019 forecast called for ~$7k budget on developers + QA, total. At market rates, that's... a small fraction of the annual cost of a single developer? (their team page lists 10-15 devs on staff)

3. Compared to the overall organizational finances, it suggests that if anything, some of the cost of running the service is being spread across their other offerings. The original vs modified forecasts for 2019 seem a bit, well, different- it's likely that the costs are still being worked out, and may be dependent on hard-to-predict growth.

It's also very notable that this hubbub seems to involve a relatively small amount of cash: the proposed funding model is a 60-40 split, with the service share divided among up to 26 groups. That says a lot about the role of building institutions to support preprints long term, and the need to help grassroots initiatives mature if we want to keep these services active.

https://cos.io/our-products/osf-preprints/ "...this fee structure accounts for $87,976 in contributions by the preprint services toward maintenance costs (38% of total)"

Disclaimer: I don't speak for any of the groups involved in this process, and comments are based only on these public documents. There may well be other numbers or context.

Re: Popular preprint servers face closure because of money troubles

#22

“... sustain its hosting service in the long term, which will cost about US$230,000 in 2020” For hosting 26 preprint servers. Is that high, low or about right

If I was hosting 26 reasonably-available servers in my home office, that's quite high.

If I had to host 26 highly-available servers available to a geographically distributed group in a commercial or academic space with paid maintenance staff and some semblance of support.. that's actually pretty darn cheap.

Re: Popular preprint servers face closure because of money troubles

#24

I still don't understand stand the point of the regional repositories. How does this "increase exposure" for their research, and if it did why would that be valuable?

If you found one, you get to brag about it. Give regional ted-X talks. Schmooze with people closer to the money than usual. I presume that's the main point.

Re: Popular preprint servers face closure because of money troubles

#25
post #12

I could be wrong here but I was frustrated at how the article never really gave a summary of what a preprint repository is. I mean, I can guess from context that it’s a place to store scientific studies. But I don’t know its role or why it’s any different from throwing some files in a Dropbox folder or a static website.

Preprint servers are well-known to nearly all readers of the journal Nature, so there wasn't much need to explain.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=preprint+server+site%3Anature.com&... for example lists many previous publications by Nature on the topic, including https://www.nature.com/articles/nmeth.3831 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-017-00950-5 and https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00199-6 . (The first was not in the flagship journal "Nature" but a sister journal.)

In short, a preprint is a version of a scientific paper before it's been formally accepted by a journal. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preprint .

The first real electronic preprint repository is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArXiv . That gives more background information on the topic.

abought describes some of the differences between a set-of-files and a preprint repository at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22319686 .

Re: Popular preprint servers face closure because of money troubles

#26
The financial problems seem to be happening at regional preprints like Indonesia or Africa. The people who run the service for them are surely using western labour. The obvious answer is for the regional preprints to switch to using local labour - ie run the service themselves. That would be a significant saving.

Re: Popular preprint servers face closure because of money troubles

#28
post #7

Seems like a job for a peer to peer system if bandwidth is a major expense.

I can't imagine that it is.

Let's say a paper is 1 MB, downloading it 1,000 times costs 10 cents at AWS prices. 10,000 lifetime views would be a lot for an arXiv paper, and that is $1. Plus storing 1,000 papers at that rate is another 10 cents a month. Storing a million papers is $100 a month.

The thing people miss about AWS's charging for bandwidth is that it's an efficient way to lower their costs handling DMCA requests. You might get 20,000 downloads of a 2 GB camcorder capture of a movie in the theaters -- the prospect of a $4000 bill to do do that encourages people to use other platforms instead. AWS doesn't have their legal department running big bills dealing with this and they pass on the savings and the generally safer environment to do whatever it is you are doing w/o harassment to their customers.

Re: Popular preprint servers face closure because of money troubles

#29

“... sustain its hosting service in the long term, which will cost about US$230,000 in 2020” For hosting 26 preprint servers. Is that high, low or about right

That's about $737/m/server. Seems high to me.

this cost-per-server implies that all the money goes to the servers. There may be humans who need to get paid too. Unless they’re claiming that that’s just the technology cost?
Post reply on HN