Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Decentralized Naming and Certificate Authority

handshake.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 128 posts

Re: Decentralized Naming and Certificate Authority

#91

Post by troquerre »

xoa wrote: post #75
troquerre wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Names are released over the course of 52 weeks. Determined by hash(name) % 52. So at worst the name you want to register will not be available until ~51 weeks from now (Handshake launched last week!). - Names have to be renewed bi-annually. You don't need to pay a fee, you just need to submit a transaction to prove you still have access to the private key. I don't think this will be any different than the existing…

> - Names are released over the course of 52 weeks. Determined by hash(name) % 52. So at worst the name you want to register will not be available until ~51 weeks from now (Handshake launched last week!). Can you clarify on what "names" means here? Common names, dictionary, every single name that exists in current DNS? If someone has a unique non-word domain right now do they have to submit that? Wait a year? > - Nam…

Any name up to 63 characters (normal domain name characters, unicode gets converted to punycode) can be registered. The difference with Handshake is that users get to choose how they store their names. There's a spectrum of convenience and self-sovereignty. In traditional DNS the existing system makes that choice for you, whereas Handshake is creating a system where individuals get to choose based on their preferences. I place a lot of value on that freedom to choose.

Re: Decentralized Naming and Certificate Authority

#92

Post by troquerre »

rasengan wrote: post #69
jspaetzel wrote: post #6

First impression: Great another ICO. Second impression: Not a wildly outlandish idea but im not sure if it's a good idea either. Decentralized and automated registrar with a concept of renewals. Nifty. I'm not really sure how the economics here work out.. Could I scoop up a few million names early on and then hold them forever? Has that already happened? Could this enable anonymous registration? Would these things ma…

Anyone participating in the GooSig airdrop [1] can technically register names anonymously as their keys will not be exposed in terms of having received the coins. Additionally, anyone who can obtain HNS anonymously can thus register anonymously. [1] https://github.com/handshake-org/goosig

If you're trying to claim the airdrop, we created this resource to make it easy https://namebase.io/airdrop. It walks you through using https://github.com/handshake-org/hs-airdrop under the hood but it generates a wallet address for you automatically.

Re: Decentralized Naming and Certificate Authority

#93

Post by sdtsui »

jimmysong wrote: post #11

This has been tried. It's called Namecoin and it failed to get much traction. I suspect that using Bitcoin instead would improve adoption dramatically instead of creating yet another token. This can be done using sidechains or something similar.

Hey Jimmy - I hope the bitcoiners that eventually read this thread can get both sides, as many project teams have received some version of the "do it on bitcoin with sidechains/lightning/liquid/rsk" refrain. I think in practice it's more complicated than that.

First - I tend to think an idea with clear similarities being tried before and failing is default a non-negative (sometimes good) sign: shows us what didn't work, and deepens everyone's understanding/validation of the problem space.

I would also say that it's more similar to Bitcoin than most people would think. Looking at the software, I think it's pretty cool that handshake's first implementation is a fork of a bitcoin implementation that has seen production usage for years (bcoin), one important change is the addition of opcodes to support covenants, so that blinded vickery name auctions can be done fully on-chain.

Basically, Handshake can build on top of the security and reliability that Bitcoin-like systems have validated for us over the last few years: namely, UTXO systems, proof of work, user knowledge/habits around self-custody.

I think Bitcoiners could consider looking at Handshake from this perspective: there is a lot of core technology, architecture decisions, and spirit that is similar. Perhaps if you believe in the potential of public blockchains like many early Bitcoiners do, the solution might not be things like sidechains (which are mentioned as a potential scaling option in the design notes), but extending the core technology in a minimal, single-purpose way (to support auctions)?

Perhaps it is possible that Handshake goes down as one of the best examples of an ambitious new project actually "using Bitcoin" (albeit in a way most Bitcoiners would not immediately agree with) instead of creating "yet another token"?

----

p.s. I've been a fan of yours for years and your content was some of the first I ran into when I was entering crypto full-time. I guess at the end of the day I'm simply curious what you thought of the other projects so far (including Namecoin and ENS) - do you own any names on other decentralized naming systems?

What do you think prevented Namecoin from getting sufficient traction from your perspective?

Re: Decentralized Naming and Certificate Authority

#94

Post by troquerre »

xoa wrote: post #57

:\ As has been the pattern with all these decentralized DNS schemes, the FAQ doesn't cover the most utterly basic question: "I currently have one or more domains that I use extensively for my own life/work. How do I transfer those to try this new scheme? How much actual dollars/euros/yen/yuan/... does it cost, not mystery blockchain-whatevers but predictable real money? Does this new scheme harm me?" Shouldn't an exp…

There's an airdrop that gives developers on github claims. Basically if you had over 15 followers on GitHub by August 2018 you likely got 4662 coins (worth a lot since current market price is $0.50[1]). These instructions walk through how to claim the airdrop https://namebase.io/airdrop. This way you can easily register names to try Handshake out even if you already have websites in traditional DNS.

[1] https://namebase.io

Re: Decentralized Naming and Certificate Authority

#95

Post by troquerre »

PSA if you had over 15 followers on GitHub by August 2018 you were likely included in the Handshake airdrop. Basically they developed a way to give each dev in the airdrop 4662 coins each (worth a lot since current market price is $0.50[1]). These instructions walk through what the claiming process is like, which can only be done after block 2016 in a day or so https://namebase.io/airdrop.

[1] https://namebase.io

Re: Decentralized Naming and Certificate Authority

#96

Post by danShumway »

troquerre wrote: post #89
danShumway wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what? That seems like it could have a lot of unintended consequences, to the point of invalidating all of the benefits from having tons and tons of new names. I have a lot of follow questions about the potential for abuse. From the squatter/troll angle: if I'm a troll or I'm trying to steal good names before anyone else can get them, what stops me from monitoring the current auctions and stealing domains by bid…

The auctions are semi-blind. You bid, and can optionally add a blind to your bid. The network sees your combined total bid + blind, but won't know your true bid value until the reveal period. So if you want to guarantee you win an auction, just make sure your bid is greater than the highest existing total.

> if you want to guarantee you win an auction, just make sure your bid is greater than the highest existing total.

How do I do that if other people's bids can contain blinds? How do I know what the highest existing total is -- I still have to guess everyone else's total, right?

And even if the auction wasn't partially sealed, even if it was completely public -- I don't see how my concerns above would go away. Isn't it still possible for companies who can trivially outspend anyone else to do regex matches on all of the current auctions and dominate the entire domain space? Don't I still need to wait 5 days to do something that I can do today in less than an hour?

Learning about auctions pretty much entirely, just by itself, took me from thinking, "it's not perfect, but it still seems almost universally better than what we have" to, "no, this would be a massive downgrade from our current system." I thought the point was to stop rent-seeking, not to implicitly allow every fortune 500 company and government to personally vet/block every single domain transaction.

The auction system being described here doesn't just focus on other problems other than name scarcity, it makes the name scarcity problem way worse. If I'm China and I want to censor this system, what stops me from monitoring the auctions and throwing a measly $2000 at any domain name that sounds critical of me in any way? What's the point of having a distributed or decentralized protocol in that scenario?

Re: Decentralized Naming and Certificate Authority

#97

Post by pinhead26 »

jimmysong wrote: post #11

This has been tried. It's called Namecoin and it failed to get much traction. I suspect that using Bitcoin instead would improve adoption dramatically instead of creating yet another token. This can be done using sidechains or something similar.

There is currently no such thing as a decentralized side chain. No one wants all this data on Bitcoin.

Re: Decentralized Naming and Certificate Authority

#98

Post by xoa »

troquerre wrote: post #91
xoa wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Names are released over the course of 52 weeks. Determined by hash(name) % 52. So at worst the name you want to register will not be available until ~51 weeks from now (Handshake launched last week!). Can you clarify on what "names" means here? Common names, dictionary, every single name that exists in current DNS? If someone has a unique non-word domain right now do they have to submit that? Wait a year? > - Nam…

Any name up to 63 characters (normal domain name characters, unicode gets converted to punycode) can be registered. The difference with Handshake is that users get to choose how they store their names. There's a spectrum of convenience and self-sovereignty. In traditional DNS the existing system makes that choice for you, whereas Handshake is creating a system where individuals get to choose based on their preference…

>Any name up to 63 characters (normal domain name characters, unicode gets converted to punycode) can be registered.

But how does that square with the 52-week staggered release bit? If I wish to go register my domain right now, what happens? I don't see anything on namebase that would simply allow entry of an arbitrary domain, instead the "bid soon" seems to just be a bunch of dictionary words. There is an invitation to enter your handle or whatever, but does that mean all such handles and existing domains have been auto scanned already for entry? Or if I do a search, do you then take that and put it up for auction like so many typical registrars? This is a really basic thing and it's not clear.

>There's a spectrum of convenience and self-sovereignty. In traditional DNS the existing system makes that choice for you, whereas Handshake is creating a system where individuals get to choose based on their preferences. I place a lot of value on that freedom to choose.

No offense but this reads as boilerplate PR mush, it doesn't actually answer anything. Choose what? High level values are all well and good but they're not a substitute for nuts-and-bolts implementation specifics either.

Re: Decentralized Naming and Certificate Authority

#99

Post by sdtsui »

danShumway wrote: post #13

I know the handshake devs/maintainers are active on here. I've heard explanations from y'all about how handshake tries to solve the squatter problem. As far as I understand those explanations: - Names are released at a trickle, meaning no one can buy all of them in one go. - Names have to be constantly renewed (it's not a buy-once-keep-forever scheme), and (correct me if I'm wrong), you can't buy 10 years out in adva…

> That domains will continue to be a limited, scarce resource that are susceptible to hoarding by people with lots of money?

I don't think so - note that these are for tlds, so a lot of existing internet infrastructure can be used for Handshake names.

Someone who wants elementary school kids to be able to buy them would allow for the purchase (at low, no, or negative cost) of subdomains (traditional domains) - it may allow for a proliferation of hundreds of little self-sovereign registrars with different policies.

`${name}.namesforschoolkids`

Re: Decentralized Naming and Certificate Authority

#100

Post by razakel »

djsumdog wrote: post #3

I don't see information on how names are handled. I know Zeronet started the entire .bit (which can be purchased with NameCoin). Are there reserved TLDs for handshake? Has ICANN said anything about .bit or .onion TLDs? I suspect TOR is big enough they won't touch .onion, but if they sell .bit, you'll then have some name overlap/conflicts.

.onion is reserved, see RFC 7686:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7686

Post reply on HN