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US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

arstechnica.com

21–30 of 296 posts

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#21
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is you choose the one which is the closer ally. Which, given the lack of US 5G manufacturers, is exactly the choice the US has already made.

After NATO would be gone, they will be allies no longer

Even if that is ever the case, US interests will still be way more aligned with Finland and Sweden than China.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#22

A question to Europeans reading this- If you had to assume that U.S. 5G equipment manufacturers would provide backdoors to U.S. officials, and Chinese 5G equipment manufacturers would provide backdoors to Chinese officials, and Europeans had to use one or the other, which would you choose?

The US, I suppose.... The thing with back doors is that others might also find them so it is quite unsafe in any case. Also, the future is unpredictable so who says the US is going to continue to be more-or-less an ally and China is going to continue to not be one?

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#23
> Telecom-equipment makers who sell products to carriers "are required by law to build into their hardware ways for authorities to access the networks for lawful purposes," but they "are also required to build equipment in such a way that the manufacturer can't get access without the consent of the network operator," the Journal wrote.

I love this quote. The US is essentially complaining that Huawei has access to the backdoor channels that only the US government was supposed to have.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#24
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or explaining why they allow those backdoors exist in the first place?

Pretty sure it's legally required by the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act[1] from 1994. I'm not 100% sure, however. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Assistance_for_...

Back in the day calea compliance meant you had to provide network connectivity and a signaling mechanism to specify what you wanted to be replicated to you. That meant voice calls and in some cases defining a network acl for packets (I knew folks who had to implement at router manufacturers - it was a hack that reused some of their multicast code base). The key part was an operator couldn't login to a device to see a calea intercept in progress or who was targeted. However due to the nature of how the replication/intercept was implemented you could see the results of it. High cpu, traffic leaving the box that didn't make sense, etc. I know one vendor who actually provided the trigger to the govt in the form of a snmpv3 query (and the communtiy string was hard coded in the os/binary...).

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#25

A question to Europeans reading this- If you had to assume that U.S. 5G equipment manufacturers would provide backdoors to U.S. officials, and Chinese 5G equipment manufacturers would provide backdoors to Chinese officials, and Europeans had to use one or the other, which would you choose?

The answer is you choose the one which is the closer ally. Which, given the lack of US 5G manufacturers, is exactly the choice the US has already made.

I don't have an answer for this question but just to play devil's advocate, is this universally true or just sometimes true for governments and certain corporations? For example, as a citizen, is my data really better off with an ally, who can use it to exploit me instantly and personally? E.g. searches for medical information increasing insurance costs.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#26
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just so we're clear, are we talking about lawful intercept (ie. capabilities built into the system so the telecom can comply with warrants), or dragnet or otherwise warantless surveillance? I'm not against "backdoors" for the former, but am against "backdoors" for the latter.

I mean, now you're just talking about intent, and thus have to trust that the intent is as claimed. Crypto doesn't discriminate on whether you have a warrant or not.

>Crypto doesn't discriminate on whether you have a warrant or not.

Okay, let's say the telecom equipment doesn't have a backdoor for lawful intercept. What happens if the telecom is served with a warrant? Are you expecting that the telecoms will refuse to cooperate with the authorities?

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#28
post #7

Reminder: US intelligence lies. They are not unique in this but it's worth repeating. They might be right about Huawei or they might not, either way saying "we totally have proof!" without providing proof is effectively meaningless.

If they had proof they would have showed it already. Nothing would help their rhetoric more than cold hard facts.

If they haven't done it, it means: a) there isn't any backdoor, or b) exposing their backdoors would expose their own backdoors.

I'm betting on b.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#29
post #22

A question to Europeans reading this- If you had to assume that U.S. 5G equipment manufacturers would provide backdoors to U.S. officials, and Chinese 5G equipment manufacturers would provide backdoors to Chinese officials, and Europeans had to use one or the other, which would you choose?

The US, I suppose.... The thing with back doors is that others might also find them so it is quite unsafe in any case. Also, the future is unpredictable so who says the US is going to continue to be more-or-less an ally and China is going to continue to not be one?

> so who says the US is going to continue to be more-or-less an ally and China is going to continue to not be one?

Geopolitics is much less unpredictable than "the future." Even the current administration is not so short-sighted to alienate the US to the point of having no powerful allies. If Europe is not considered an ally (it is, not "more or less," it 100% is), where would the US turn? Even if you take a scenario where Trump and Russia are allies, and the US positions itself closer to Russia, Russia's allies are anathema to US interests and ideals, and will be for the foreseeable future.

I just can't see any reality outside of borderline sci-fi where the US is not a close ally to just about every Western European country.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#30
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, now you're just talking about intent, and thus have to trust that the intent is as claimed. Crypto doesn't discriminate on whether you have a warrant or not.

>Crypto doesn't discriminate on whether you have a warrant or not. Okay, let's say the telecom equipment doesn't have a backdoor for lawful intercept. What happens if the telecom is served with a warrant? Are you expecting that the telecoms will refuse to cooperate with the authorities?

They shouldn't refuse, but they should be allowed to be unable to cooperate.
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