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Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

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Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#691

Post by Drew_ »

mumblemumble wrote: post #659
dkonofalski wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I don't understand the sad conclusion of the story in the article. The driver knew that AutoPilot had issues with that stretch of the freeway and was able to repeat the issues on several occasions but still thought it best to be on his phone, while driving 71 mph, at the mercy of AutoPilot? Especially considering that he was an engineer who had expressed concern over this, it seems silly to me that he wou…

We don't need to understand it. We just need to know that, even armed with all that knowledge, he still made the decision he did, and that we should not expect others with less knowledge of how software works to be any less human.

If anything I would expect less knowledgeable people to be more skeptical and cautious than somebody who has a vested interest and passion for technology. I can't imagine anybody other than a tech enthusiast who would maintain trust in a self driving car technology that previously attempted to veer them into a barrier.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#692

Post by Isinlor »

MereInterest wrote: post #661
wbl wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern cars are deadly to pedestrians, especially SUVs.

Reading through the crash test procedure, it is astounding how little attention is paid to pedestrians. 1. Front crash test. Procedure: Crash car into stationary barrier at 35 mph. Is also applicable to face-to-face crash with car of same size, going at same speed. 2. Side crash test. Procedure: Slam concrete block into side of stationary car at 38.5 mph. 3. Side pole test. Procedure: Drag car sideways towards a pole…

European safety rating has a category for "Vulnerable Road Users":

https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/tesla/model-3/37573

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#693

Post by bagacrap »

mkl wrote: post #374
asdff wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try to avoid putting your life in the hands of closed source software.

Wouldn't that make it impossible to drive almost any modern vehicle? Or fly in any modern passenger aeroplane?

Or use the healthcare system

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#694

Post by isoskeles »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #484
pfarnsworth wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but using cruise control in heavy rain is just simply a bad idea. It's supposed to be used when conditions are ideal, not when they as bad as can be. That is human error, in my opinion.

How is it any more idiotic than maintaining that speed manually? I'm struggling to think of any combination of hardware/software that isn't asinine on first glance (e.g. feed the cruise control off only the rear wheel speed sensors on a FWD vehicle) where cruise control would be any different than a driver manually holding the same speed by putting their foot on the gas.

I don’t think a normal human would try to maintain an unsafe speed going uphill in heavy rain.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#695

Post by spookthesunset »

cmroanirgo wrote: post #154
perl4ever wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And within a few minutes we got freaked out with what seem to us as unpredictable action and we turned it off." On the one hand, I'm affected by the FUD and will not buy a Tesla, and perhaps also will have schadenfreude to the extent their CEO has misfortunes. On the other hand, to be fair, other driver assistance features are creating problems too. I think it was Subaru I was just reading about having serious probl…

I remember an engineering class at uni in the early 90's discussing how cruise control worked, and was borderline horrified at the childish simplicity of the design. In all this time, I've probably used it 1/2 dozen times, because my trust level is very low. Just the other day I was a passenger in a Peugot and it was raining very heavily. Cruise control automatically disabled when one of the tyres suddenly bogged dow…

Sometimes simple designs are good. Older cruise control designs are quite primitive but very effective. Nothing but a simple feedback loop. Car not fast enough? More gas. Too fast? Less gas. The smarter ones (probably ones with electronic transmissions) would even downshift to keep under the preset speed.

I bet the earliest ones were all mechanical too.

Of all the features in a vehicle, I don’t think you need to worry about “standard” cruise control.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#696

Post by anon73044 »

MereInterest wrote: post #672
amflare wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most 1-3 ton objects moving with any sort of momentum are. What is your point?

70% more likely to be killed when struck by a larger car [1]. With a higher front face, pedestrians are struck in the chest, rather than the legs. Turns out, broken legs are a lot more survivable than damage to internal organs. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/oct/07/a-deadly-prob...

By that logic, a low slung sports car is the most pedestrian safe and Ferrari's should get a pedestrian safety rebate. I'll take one!

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#697

Post by rkangel »

krisroadruck wrote: post #662
wbl wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern cars are deadly to pedestrians, especially SUVs.

I imagine any multi-ton mass moving in excess of certain speeds will be deadly to unprotected soft-bodied organisms. How do Modern cars differ from non-modern cars in this respect? We've added better brakes, back-up cameras and object detection to avoid running into people, hopefully reducing the number of incidents, but yeah you hit someone with a car moving at any appreciable speed and it's gonna do damage.

Look at European pedestrian safety regulations. There's a reason that the shape of the front of European cars is all kinda the same - they are designed to minimise pedestrian casualties.

Obviously no one is going to survive if you hit them at 70, but you can make a big difference in the 25-35 region that is the normal speed where there are a lot of people around.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#698

Post by nradov »

krzat wrote: post #428
sam_goody wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, flying cars will eventually arrive. Perhaps it will be limited to specific "lanes" (it will be much more palatable to the masses if it must (like cars) keep to a limited area). But it will not need to recognize pedestrians and bikers and human driven cars, and some standard will be introduced to allow all them self driving cars to talk to each other. At that point, Level 5 will be much easier, even obvious. All…

I wonder if it's possible to solve noise problem with flying cars. Maybe use active noise cancellation at the source? No idea if it's even theoretically possible, but would be neat.

No, it's not physically possible to do any significant active cancellation of the noise caused by a rotor / propeller spinning through the air. The noise sources are too spread out (especially with multi-rotor designs) and cover too much of the audible range.

Blade shape can be tuned to an extent for minimizing noise but that also reduces efficiency (not much to spare). Larger, slower turning blades are also quieter but there are practical physical limits on size and weight.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#699

Post by dwild »

Reading this article I got a big flash when I read "slammed into a concrete barrier", because it nearly happened to me a few weeks ago and it shook me quite a bit to think of the implications. It wasn't a self driving car though, it was just a bit of aquaplaning, but I was still letting myself distracted enough too close to the concrete barrier and not be aware enough of my environment by missing the water accumulation on the side because of the melting ice/snow.

That didn't made me think that cars are too complex and should no longer by driven, that made me think that I should be more careful on my driving. Yet here we are arguing whether that's a signal that we shouldn't allow autopilot feature.

Autopilot or not, YOU are still the driver. If there's a mistake, YOU should be responsible for it. As long as there's a steering wheel, and I believe there will be one for a pretty long time, you are still the one responsible to make sure theses things doesn't happen. If you can't manage it, don't use autopilot, just like if I can't manage to drive, I won't use a car. Getting a driving license may seems like a formality, but it's not, it's a test to see whether you are apt to drive.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#700

Post by PopeRigby »

tenacious_tuna wrote: post #536
kkhire wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's becoming more and more clear. self driving technology will only put more 2000 lb machines on highways clogging up space. USA NEEDS TRAINS!

Trails will help highway traffic between major cities, but it doesn't address how spread out suburbs are from people's jobs and support infra (grocery stores, doctors, restaurants, etc). It's a chicken-and-egg problem, now: - people are spread out because they've owned cars, so the distance doesn't bother them - If you take their cars away, they're too spread out to support themselves, because of how the towns were b…

Totally. American cities we're built with cars in mind, and it's really crippled their potential. Densely packed cities with subways and a lot of vertical freedom are the best way to build. They prevent deforestation because you don't need to expand outward, and they help with pollution because you can have maybe a couple hundred metro cars instead of millions of individual cars. I'm not sure how this would be implemented now though, because like I said, American cities have been crippled by their car infrastructure.
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