N26 will be leaving the UK • Hacker News Board

Re: N26 will be leaving the UK

#491

Post by imtringued » Wed, Feb 12, 2020, 12:39 PM UTC

barnabee wrote: post #220

scarejunba wrote: post #61

The comments here are odd. N26 isn't making any political statements. They're just saying they don't want to apply for a UK banking licence now that they can't use an EU one. The response "they're only doing this because they can't make enough money in the UK" seems kind of vacuous. Of course that's why they're doing it. The cost of requiring a UK licence outweighs the benefit of being there. There seems to be some s…

It’s not so much “Brexit didn’t cause this” as it is hard to believe that’s the main reason their business failed in the UK (make no mistake, that is what they are admitting, whatever the reason). The comments are quite reasonably identifying that their statement is conveniently burying the real news with an excuse that will surely be easy to swallow in their home country. Brexit is bad but that isn’t the news here.…

You're making the assumption that they care about the UK market. If they don't, then leaving the UK market is not a failure.

Re: N26 will be leaving the UK

#492

Post by imtringued » Wed, Feb 12, 2020, 12:42 PM UTC

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 wrote: post #24

Brexit makes for a convenient scapegoat when your business isn’t compelling to U.K. customers.

Why care if your business isn't compelling to one market out of 27? As long as you have a valid license you can take your time. Unfortunately they don't have that luxury.

Re: N26 will be leaving the UK

#493

Post by rocho » Wed, Feb 12, 2020, 1:01 PM UTC

smabie wrote: post #385

oAlbe wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Italy there's also the problem that most banks don't allow you to receive wire transfers from outside the SEPA area. I had a hard time finding a bank that would allow me to receive transfers from the US. Some of them were actually baffled when I called for information at the idea of someone wanting to receive money from oversea. And let's not even get into keeping an account in another currency. My bank apparently…

Do Italians not invest in US securities at all? Seems kind of strange...

I do. I have an account with Interactive Brokers and I can easily deposit EUR. I can buy US stocks and options in USD and IB takes care of all the details (internally, it shows up as a short USD position).

Investing from the banks themselves it's also possible but it involves higher fees. Using IB has the disadvantage that I have to do the taxes myself.

Re: N26 will be leaving the UK

#494

Post by rocho » Wed, Feb 12, 2020, 1:03 PM UTC

oAlbe wrote: post #398

smabie wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do Italians not invest in US securities at all? Seems kind of strange...

I've yet to figure that out. Personally, I'd love to be able to easily invest in a vanguard fund, or even just have the ability to put money every month on index funds, but so far from what I've seen doesn't seem to be possible.

You can easily buy everything you want from Interactive Brokers. You can deposit EUR and do the transactions in other currencies. The interface is old and complicated, but very powerful. You will have to do the taxes yourself though.

Re: N26 will be leaving the UK

#495

Post by colourgarden » Wed, Feb 12, 2020, 1:37 PM UTC

n4r9 wrote: post #279

doublerabbit wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may also be that the EU banking system has customer tracking, the UK does not. N26 relies on customer tracking, so you can’t just withdrawal a large amount of money and disappear. It is all brexit related, why can’t you see that? Why else would they suddenly pack up shop? Unfortunately This is just the first to come.

It's not even the first, in terms of businesses packing up shop. Norton motorcycles is another recent example that springs to mind.

Norton went bankrupt. N26 are choosing not to operate in the UK any longer.

Re: N26 will be leaving the UK

#496

Post by jfengel » Wed, Feb 12, 2020, 2:06 PM UTC

ianai wrote: post #361

jfengel wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really, there was just the one referendum, and it succeeded. It was confirmed twice later, once weakly, and a second time more strongly, via parliamentary elections that both gave power to the pro-Brexit party. I don't believe that this constitutes a ringing endorsement of Brexit, and has more to do with the failure of the Remain-focused politicians to pull together properly. But Remain was given three tries to win,…

Right. They repeated whatever election processes it took to get the outcome they wanted. Sauce it up with whatever you want it’s still manufacturing consent.

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at here. Leave won the first try. If anybody could be accused of trying for do-overs, it's Remain. In the last snap elections, one party talked about a possible new referendum, and the other outright promised to throw out the first referendum. The latter party got destroyed, and the former was merely trounced, largely on the basis of being wishy-washy.

Even in the ill-considered first snap election, the pro-Brexit Tory party was still the dominant party, despite losing seats. They came roaring back after getting new leadership that was more confidently pro-Brexit.

I reiterate that I think that this is all an incredibly bad idea, and I believe it represents a failure of democracy. But Remain had multiple chances, and lost all of them, the last time resoundingly.

Re: N26 will be leaving the UK

#497

Post by tomatocracy » Wed, Feb 12, 2020, 2:19 PM UTC

zaarn wrote: post #451

rjzzleep wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't disagree. The fact that they can force the government to do their bidding is corruption in my eyes too. The carmakers in Germany shut down various attempts to incentivize electronic cars and inquiries in their criminal behavior in the cheating scandals. I think there is a fine line between lobbying and being downright criminal. I think most companies have actually crossed the line. Deutsche Bahn after priv…

The EU generally talks to the industry affected by some regulations, this is generally to prevent deploying a regulation or law that doesn't really work in practise and to find a reasonable compromise (of course, sometimes multiple industries end up at the table, some with more political power than others, which is how you get the EU copyright reform pushed by newspapers and yellow journalists)

The effect is more often, and I think more accurately, termed 'regulatory capture' than corruption. The other side of it is that the incumbents work to ensure that regulation presents a very high barrier to entry for any would-be competitor.

Re: N26 will be leaving the UK

#498

Post by satysin » Wed, Feb 12, 2020, 2:24 PM UTC

gnud wrote: post #461

satysin wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh. My. God. YES! I moved from the UK to [redacted] in 2018 (in part due to Brexit but that is a longer story) and dear god the banking systems here are utter shit. I am with HSBC and I can't even change the PIN on my debit card! Hell I couldn't even get my card and cheque book (yes they still use cheques here!) delivered to my address as it was a temporary one so I had to collect it from my branch in person. If I bu…

> Hell I couldn't even get my card and cheque book (...) delivered to my address as it was a temporary one so I had to collect it from my branch in person. Of course! Doing manual pickups with proper ID checks avoids a lot of problems. My bank will only send stuff to my 'official' address that I have registered with the tax authorities. If I want a OTP-dongle or debit card in some other way, I can pick them up in a b…

I understand the why but when moving country I would have thought (hoped?) they would have some sort of more flexible process. We had to go back to see our account manager no less than 5 times in the first two weeks of having our HSBC account to collect different items. We couldn't get the card and PIN at the same time for "security" so had to get the PIN first, then the card two days later?!

I fully understand their need to protect against mail interception and fraud but I think there are better solutions than getting me to go all the way into the centre (about half an hour of my time each way on public transport) to pick up a cheque book is a little extreme.

Funny thing with the OTP generator. They posted that to us! FFS you can't make it up!

Re: N26 will be leaving the UK

#499

Post by wdb » Wed, Feb 12, 2020, 2:59 PM UTC

SirHound wrote: post #434

wdb wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, after spending a lot of effort to open a bank account to receive your monthly pay; it ended up some weird account were you could only use your debit card at their ATMs. Madness. UK banks are weird

I think that’s been illegal for over 20 years

Really interesting

Re: N26 will be leaving the UK

#500

Post by smartervo » Wed, Feb 12, 2020, 3:11 PM UTC

bionsystem wrote: post #450

kweks wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ex-HSBC customer in France here. It was one of the worst banking experiences possible - incredibly expensive debit cards with very low ceilings, etc. The "plus" that you mention, having a dedicated account guru can swing both ways: mine left my local branch for another branch 10km away, and I would not perform any significant operation without their presence.. which was no longer in the branch. Boursorama or N26.

Do you know anything about Hello Bank ?

Orange Bank is another option in France which is free for basic current account activities, although they don't offer Livret etc.

The best way to do this in France seems to be to keep a "legacy" bank just for handling savings without a current account (that way you don't pay for current account, card etc.), and use one of the free challenger banks for current account, direct debits etc.