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Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

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Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#221

Post by riffraff »

crca wrote: post #194
mettamage wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you take your hands off the wheel and look at your phone for 6 seconds in any other car you’re going to have a bad time. Which is why you don't do it in any other car. I don't know much about autopilot, but because we as humans don't know when it can go wrong, it's easier to get it into situations it wasn't designed for. This is not true for the 6 seconds any other car scenario as we will be predicting what the…

Very true. Tesla has done a lot to try and make it clear to drivers that they must remain vigilant - in this particular case it sounds like the driver ignored several auditory tactile warnings to resume control of the vehicle, in addition to the standard warnings when Autopilot is activated. Short of changing the name I think they’ve done everything they can to manage expectations for Autopilot once you’re in the car…

I do think changing the name would be the responsible thing to do.

If you call something a knife you can't 100% blame the customers if they try to use it to cut stuff, even if you say "Knife™ should not be used for cutting"

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#222

Post by dmode »

reallydontask wrote: post #218
skolsuper wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they truly believe that the autopilot driving is safer than unassisted, they might reasonably consider it an immoral act not to ship it. Given the number of lives lost in auto accidents every day, the issue is not as clear-cut as you're suggesting. It's a real-world trolley problem.

> If they truly believe that the autopilot driving is safer than unassisted, they might reasonably consider it an immoral act not to ship it. Then Tesla should be given it away, not charging extra for it. To do otherwise would be immoral.

That’s an absurd suggestion. Every car company charges more for advanced safety features

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#223

Post by fxtentacle »

liability wrote: post #193
fxtentacle wrote: post #187

I avoid new technology, exactly because I'm an engineer. I wonder if that is just me, but when new technology is introduced and hyped, I usually take a quick look at implementations, research, and talks just to get an idea of what the state of the art really is like. As a result, I have become the late adopter among my group of friends because the first iteration of any new technology usually just isn't worth the iss…

Optimistically; maybe everybody is hiding their 'secret sauce'. But I expect you're probably right.

I was optimistic like that in university. Great times :)

But then I went into consulting and saw that big companies have teams of lawyers that settle proactively out of court to keep inconvenient truths out of the public opinion.

Like the first few exploding iPhones.

(Just an example, never worked there)

BTW, did you hear about the Uber crash where their AI couldn't track a pedestrian and then killed her?

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#224

Post by ironmagma »

Rapzid wrote: post #212
ironmagma wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call it speculation, but most people don’t really want all the consequences that come with the distinct lack of it in the US. Especially when you consider the economic effects of walkable areas.

Most people don't really want all the consequences that come with the distinct lack of rural areas either..

But if you have denser cities, that leaves more room for rural areas. I don’t think anyone is arguing for less rural land, but as it stands, it is legally impossible to build another city like San Francisco or Manhattan in the US, and that’s a problem for sustainability. People want to live in those places, and not just because they are old.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#225

Post by Luc »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #166

There are going to be Autopilot crashes and people should disable it if they uncomfortable with putting their lives in the hands of Tesla's software. I would be. But I see no reason to not believe to not believe what they have on https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport It shows Teslas have much fewer accidents than the average car, and that Teslas with autopilot enabled are substantially safe per mile than with aut…

> The article says a Prius hit the same place as this Tesla the week before. But the NTSB isn't investigating Toyota.

Makes sense to investigate Tesla since it's always the same driver causing the accidents. It still makes sense even if this driver is safer than everyone else.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#226

Post by ghgr »

fxtentacle wrote: post #187

I avoid new technology, exactly because I'm an engineer. I wonder if that is just me, but when new technology is introduced and hyped, I usually take a quick look at implementations, research, and talks just to get an idea of what the state of the art really is like. As a result, I have become the late adopter among my group of friends because the first iteration of any new technology usually just isn't worth the iss…

I mostly agree with you that there are many false positives in the research papers. Still, you shouldn't outright dismiss the possibility of you not implementing their models correctly.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#227

Post by mrtksn »

_ph_ wrote: post #220
mrtksn wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to social media, YouTubers, Redditors Tesla's drive themselves and are not simply automobiles with electric propulsion but computers on wheels, they have all the necessary hardware built-in and the software gets a miracle updates over the air, it is called autopilot, there're people sleeping on the highway while their Tesla drives them home, machine learning and AI is about to automate everything and you ar…

Yes, the car is making noises when you don't hold the wheels and after 3 warnings, the Autopilot system is disabled until the car is restarted. The Autopilot is very explicitly not suitable for unobserved operation.

How do people sleep or play on their phones then? Are the warnings not frequent and prominent enough? Are people hacking it and disabling it? What's the deal here?

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#228

Post by mgoetzke »

Why are there still these death traps on Highways ? No matter whether driving on AutoPilot or Lane Assist or manually, it is statistically quite likely a car can and will drift of for a second.

I have trouble thinking of any such places on the German Autobahn where drifting of would lead to a full head on collision with a concrete barrier.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#229

Post by riffraff »

revscat wrote: post #156
spookthesunset wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but it is auto pilot! It can drive itself!! You have no idea how many Tesla drivers will openly admit to taking their hands off the wheel and eyes of the road in order to take off a coat, tend to a child, etc. I work with somebody who claimed to do just that routinely. Here is somebody from a few days ago bragging about taking their hands off the wheel and eyes off the road: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=…

People already do the things you listed, though. Hell, when my kids were in car seats I frequently had to reach around behind me to soothe them via touch. AutoPilot would have been a godsend, because I wouldn’t have had to stress out so much about juggling two things at once. This is the part where you call me irresponsible, right? It seems like every discussion on this topic follows that pattern. The fact remains, t…

> This is the part where you call me irresponsible, right?

Well, yes. But let's say everybody does things like this: the problem is that on a normal car you'll try to keep the off-hand time at a minimum, keep half hand on the wheel, or just give up and stop the car.

If you rely on autopilot you'l could just lower your attention for a longer time, and you can't rely on autopilot to actually do the right thing, it may work fine ten times and then crash your car into another on the eleventh killing both you and your baby.

The stress you feel is a good thing.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#230

Post by SeeDave »

ww520 wrote: post #33

I have a car with the "autopilot" feature like the Tesla, but they call it adaptive cruise control and lane assist. The adaptive cruise control works pretty well; I guess it only needs to check the radar to see what's in front to slow down. The lane assist is problematic in recognizing different kind of lanes and would steer off course from time to time. I guess the current state of "autopilot" technology is simply n…

Boom de yada.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16732664

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