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Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

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Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#211

Post by totalZero »

quelltext wrote: post #115
Balgair wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An engineer should know better Maaaaybe? I'm not a hydraulic engineer and won't pretend to be one. So I hire plumbers when things go wrong. If they screw up, I don't tend to blame myself though. I think the same logic would apply to the deceased.

For some reason "Apple engineer" is used a lot (see title) in discussions around this on both ends (i.e. "he was an engineer and thus knew his stuff/was credible, and he voiced some concerns to friends/family, so let's agree with it being Tesla's fault" vs. "he was an engineer and should have known/anticipated the system's caveats"). The thing is you cannot have it both ways, so I think (and I think we agree) we shou…

Being an engineer should only add value to his comments about an engineered technology. His complaint was made from a position of software expertise and familiarity with technology.

His inability to anticipate the system's caveat that led to his death is a testament to the unpredictability (from the user's perspective) of the vehicle's behavior.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#212

Post by Rapzid »

ironmagma wrote: post #178
mrits wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone wants to live in a dense population.

Call it speculation, but most people don’t really want all the consequences that come with the distinct lack of it in the US. Especially when you consider the economic effects of walkable areas.

Most people don't really want all the consequences that come with the distinct lack of rural areas either..

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#213

Post by velmu »

histriosum wrote: post #181
scarejunba wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like Eyesight. It's pretty cool and I like the emergency braking feature. The warning triggers before the emergency brake quite often spuriously but it's nice. I like it. I think the difference between me and the rest of these guys is that I see it as just an assistive technology and they're trying not to drive. I still have my eyes on the road and everything. It's just there to help, just like I still use my mirro…

I own a 2019 Forrester with EyeSight. While I dont hate it, and I like the adaptive cruise, I'm curious.. How exactly do you easily override the crash detection logic? I've had it slam on the brakes spuriously due to steam from manhole vents, and short of disabling the feature (which cant be done in a way that sticks between starts) I dont know how I would avoid this behavior, particularly easily.

Read the manual. You should be able to explicitly turn these off for car wash, etc. They’ll be on again the next time you start.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#214

Post by mrtksn »

danielinoa wrote: post #42

According to this article: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a30877577/driver-tesla-mod... "Data from his phone indicates that a mobile game was active during his drive and that his hands were not on the wheel during the six seconds ahead of the crash."

According to social media, YouTubers, Redditors Tesla's drive themselves and are not simply automobiles with electric propulsion but computers on wheels, they have all the necessary hardware built-in and the software gets a miracle updates over the air, it is called autopilot, there're people sleeping on the highway while their Tesla drives them home, machine learning and AI is about to automate everything and you are short-seller devil of the petrol industry if you question anything.

How fair is to say that the driver should have had their hands on the wheel at all time and checked and acquired a pilot license or at least studied what is autopilot?

Does Tesla's have driver attention detectors and warning systems? Is the car beeping or something like that when you don't hold the wheel?

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#215

Post by cptskippy »

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #2

Question: if the guy thought the Autopilot was failing, why did he continue to use it?

That's the real question.

The title should be "Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot but continued to use it and didn't have his hands on the wheel when the crash occurred."

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#216

Post by riffraff »

fxtentacle wrote: post #187

I avoid new technology, exactly because I'm an engineer. I wonder if that is just me, but when new technology is introduced and hyped, I usually take a quick look at implementations, research, and talks just to get an idea of what the state of the art really is like. As a result, I have become the late adopter among my group of friends because the first iteration of any new technology usually just isn't worth the iss…

This resonates with me, and of course the classic xkcd on electronic voting https://xkcd.com/2030/

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#217

Post by allovernow »

fxtentacle wrote: post #187

I avoid new technology, exactly because I'm an engineer. I wonder if that is just me, but when new technology is introduced and hyped, I usually take a quick look at implementations, research, and talks just to get an idea of what the state of the art really is like. As a result, I have become the late adopter among my group of friends because the first iteration of any new technology usually just isn't worth the iss…

I don't know where you got these papers but you clearly got an awful sampling and I don't think you're giving computer vision a fair evaluation.

Granted, we're not quite ready for self driving, but there's no question that the neural network subfield of ML has absolutely exploded in the last 5-10 years and is bursting with productionizable, application ready architectures that are already solving real world problems.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#218

Post by reallydontask »

skolsuper wrote: post #202
benzor wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your claim relies entirely on the veracity of Tesla's safety report. Unfortunately I am inclined to mistrust any such vehicle safety claims directly from Tesla's own website. There is a conflict of interest in that they are incentivized to publish the most favorable numbers. We should be rightly cynical and rely only on numbers from an independent third party, as we would normally do for other companies with a less f…

If they truly believe that the autopilot driving is safer than unassisted, they might reasonably consider it an immoral act not to ship it. Given the number of lives lost in auto accidents every day, the issue is not as clear-cut as you're suggesting. It's a real-world trolley problem.

> If they truly believe that the autopilot driving is safer than unassisted, they might reasonably consider it an immoral act not to ship it.

Then Tesla should be given it away, not charging extra for it. To do otherwise would be immoral.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#219

Post by lutorm »

m00x wrote: post #30
salimmadjd wrote: post #12

This is sad and tragic. I remember going with a friend on a Tesla test drive. He was eager to try the Autopilot system. And within a few minutes we got freaked out with what seem to us as unpredictable action and we turned it off. I think the engineer should have never relied on it. Especially if he had concerns with the system. At the same time, "Autopilot" is misleading and Tesla does own responsibility here. Even…

Autopilot never meant full automatic control. In a plane context, which was the most common until now, it's only used to keep a trajectory steady, and anything unusual has to be taken care of by a human pilot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilot > Autopilots do not replace human operators, but instead they assist them in controlling the vehicle. Names don't really mean anything, it could have been named anything.…

Since autopilots on airplanes literally fly straight lines between waypoints, it's pretty clear that whatever it means in airplane contexts has zero bearing on what it means in a car context. Having an airplane autopilot fly in proximity to anything else is a recipe for swift death.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#220

Post by _ph_ »

mrtksn wrote: post #214
danielinoa wrote: post #42

According to this article: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a30877577/driver-tesla-mod... "Data from his phone indicates that a mobile game was active during his drive and that his hands were not on the wheel during the six seconds ahead of the crash."

According to social media, YouTubers, Redditors Tesla's drive themselves and are not simply automobiles with electric propulsion but computers on wheels, they have all the necessary hardware built-in and the software gets a miracle updates over the air, it is called autopilot, there're people sleeping on the highway while their Tesla drives them home, machine learning and AI is about to automate everything and you ar…

Yes, the car is making noises when you don't hold the wheels and after 3 warnings, the Autopilot system is disabled until the car is restarted. The Autopilot is very explicitly not suitable for unobserved operation.
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