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Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

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Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#171

Post by stiglitz »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #166

There are going to be Autopilot crashes and people should disable it if they uncomfortable with putting their lives in the hands of Tesla's software. I would be. But I see no reason to not believe to not believe what they have on https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport It shows Teslas have much fewer accidents than the average car, and that Teslas with autopilot enabled are substantially safe per mile than with aut…

Teslas are more expensive than the average car (hence might be driven more carefully), and autopilot is more likely to be enabled in predictable driving environments like highways.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#172

Post by crca »

Tesla publishes their safety numbers in terms of accidents per x millions of miles driven. If you believe their numbers then Autopilot in its current configuration is clearly safer than a purely human operated vehicle. Having driven on Autopilot for about 85% of the total time I’ve spent in a Tesla, its been a life changer. But obviously YMMV.

It really sucks that this specific interchange has cost so many lives - and it’s apparent that there’s some frailty of the code that makes autopilot vehicles more susceptible.

In general when it comes to crashes on Autopilot, it’s important to keep perspective. If you take your hands off the wheel and look at your phone for 6 seconds in any other car you’re going to have a bad time. On Autopilot, it took a confluence of bad road design, poor road maintenance, and an unlikely software fault to initiate a crash.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#173

Post by tyrust »

zaroth wrote: post #114
tyrust wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It has improved a lot in the 9 months I have had it. A system like this should not have noticable changes in behavior over such a short period of time. In other words, I don't think they should launch it (let alone call it "autopilot") until it's done and stable.

A system like this which isn't constantly improving is not a system that will ever ship, or ever reach truly reliable widespread use.

I agree that it should be improving. I don't think that said improvements should be so dramatic that they are easily perceived by humans, for that implies that the shortcomings are perceivable.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#174

Post by deelowe »

ztjio wrote: post #128
spookthesunset wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gotta love how quick Tesla is to throw their customers under the bus using telemetry data the customer cannot access on their own..

Their customer is perfectly aware of whether he has a video game going on in his hands instead of a steering wheel. No telemetry needed from that perspective.

You're missing the point. The family does not know this nor do they have access to this data which would be extremely useful in determining what their legal options are.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#175

Post by revscat »

aaron_m04 wrote: post #35
smileysteve wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my experience, not a hard turn. The worst was it was raining and inconstant lane markings around a turn. I wondered if it was going to make the turn or if it was going to make it too late towards the sidewall. It also takes very little interaction for it to pop out of self driving

> It also takes very little interaction for it to pop out of self driving That itself could be dangerous if it isn't very obvious to the driver that autopilot is no longer engaged.

When it disengages itself it issues a series of loud tones and the display flashes red. A message also appears saying “TAKE OVER IMMEDIATELY”.

In cases where the driver takes over, there is audial, visual, and tactile feedback letting you know it has been successfully disengaged.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#176

Post by bonestamp2 »

keanzu wrote: post #19
salimmadjd wrote: post #12

This is sad and tragic. I remember going with a friend on a Tesla test drive. He was eager to try the Autopilot system. And within a few minutes we got freaked out with what seem to us as unpredictable action and we turned it off. I think the engineer should have never relied on it. Especially if he had concerns with the system. At the same time, "Autopilot" is misleading and Tesla does own responsibility here. Even…

GM calls theirs Super Cruise which is true hands-free. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxeK0F-D3gg

I like the idea of super cruise -- it seems like a lidar scan of the freeway would have prevented Huang's death. But, obviously the freeway changes over time so I wonder how frequently GM re-scans the freeways. Lidar is expensive of course, but it also seems so obvious that the lidar needs to be onboard the vehicle.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#177

Post by tchock23 »

nzrf wrote: post #90
salgernon wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Subaru with some sort of "Eye Sight" feature. It is quite handy in maintaining a constant distance from a car in front of you in moderate traffic - but you have to always be ready for someone to cut you off. It tracks the lane markers and rumbles the steering wheel. If a car stops short ahead of you, it beeps and flashes an indicator - I'm usually on the ball enough to hit the brakes myself though, so I don'…

I also own a Subaru. The assistance is very unwelcome for the crash detection at times. Living in Minnesota the exhaust from a car in front of you can set it off. This can happen on start off of a green light and can completely decelerate the Subaru. The eyesight detects the exhaust as obstacle the car behind you is now at a loss why you are now immediately breaking off the green light. I’m not a fan at all and eye s…

What year is your Subaru? My understanding was that early versions of the eyesight system were pretty bad, but they fixed a lot of the kinks in recent versions. It would be disappointing to learn that wasn’t the case...

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#178

Post by ironmagma »

mrits wrote: post #167
PopeRigby wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think self driving cars are a ridiculous solution to a problem we created and doesn't need to exist. The US building out the country for cars wasn't a good way to do transportation. If we just had trains going from city to city and subways in the cities, we wouldn't even need self driving cars.

Not everyone wants to live in a dense population.

Call it speculation, but most people don’t really want all the consequences that come with the distinct lack of it in the US. Especially when you consider the economic effects of walkable areas.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#179

Post by WilliamEdward »

smallstepforman wrote: post #158

As a software engineer, all I have to do is think that my colleges wrote the auto pilot code, and that would keep me from ever turning the feature on.

This kind of thing makes me think software engineering should require an actual accreditation like a formal engineering job does.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#180

Post by ironmagma »

PopeRigby wrote: post #146
salimmadjd wrote: post #12

This is sad and tragic. I remember going with a friend on a Tesla test drive. He was eager to try the Autopilot system. And within a few minutes we got freaked out with what seem to us as unpredictable action and we turned it off. I think the engineer should have never relied on it. Especially if he had concerns with the system. At the same time, "Autopilot" is misleading and Tesla does own responsibility here. Even…

I think self driving cars are a ridiculous solution to a problem we created and doesn't need to exist. The US building out the country for cars wasn't a good way to do transportation. If we just had trains going from city to city and subways in the cities, we wouldn't even need self driving cars.

This is true, but there’s no rolling back history. We’re quite locked in to our current situation and the best we can do is work within the constraints that have been established.
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