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Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

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Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#141
post #48

I am intrigued by Teslas, and am considering purchasing one. However, I would feel better about the purchase if there was absolutely no autopilot software or hardware on board. Ideally that would mean zero , including non-autopilot builds of all system and control software so there is no chance the car will ever engage autopilot. Is it possible to buy a Tesla completely devoid of autopilot, or is this type of acciden…

If you want a hardware cut-off, it's not available. Don't buy the car.

Most people either feel comfortable with a software cut-off or feel comfortable with it present.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#142
post #96
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an extra cost option. Don't specify it and it won't be enabled. The hardware and software are still present in the vehicle, just turned off. There's never been a Tesla incident, that I know of, where the system has turned itself on . Every single crash has been after a deliberate engagement by the driver.

Unintended accelerations in Nissans were blamed on bit-flips due to cosmic rays. I think that one actually was true in the end. So unless you'd like to test the CPUs near nuclear reactors and electron guns, I'd say that there is a (cosmically) small risk of it turning on despite not enabling it.

Or, since the Tesla dev teams move much faster than Nissans, there could just be a bug that causes it to engage when it's not wanted.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#143

Tesla says autopilot works but that driver should be ready to intervene. This is terrifying - like having a kid riding shotgun that might just reach out and turn the wheel while you are on the highway. Anyone who has driven with autopilot, how quickly might it react to a perceived obstacle? Would it take a hard turn into a median faster than a person could reasonably react if it thought there was something in the roa…

I use autopilot daily. It drives me, on a twisty road, from my house to work with intervention when I get into town.

> how quickly might it react to a perceived obstacle?

I've had it head towards a curbed median in the middle of the road and within 10 feet swerve to the right to miss it (in a spot that I've driven by hundreds of times, but this time it kinda decided to head towards the curbed median). Auto pilot can react surprisingly quickly in a good way.

So far, for me, it has never swerved quickly towards anything. There are situations, like on blind curves in the mountains, where it doesn't know what to do. At this time, it will start beeping, showing red on the screen and try its best to keep driving: even if that means quickly heading off the road. But, it doesn't act aggressive in any way. This is what I've experienced so far.

I've had auto pilot take me, hands free, between freeway interchanges, merging, changing lanes, etc. and I'm totally amazed. At other times, it does seem to do dumb things and I wonder what it had seen to consider taking the action it took.

Even with all that, there is still a huge advantage to auto pilot. Driving with it on seems to remove >a lotI also have more time to scan the road for anything going on. Looking down to see my speed, for example, (basically any action that takes my focus off the road for a second or two) is less stressful.

It is utterly amazing technology and I still can't believe it is happening while I'm alive.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#144

Tesla says autopilot works but that driver should be ready to intervene. This is terrifying - like having a kid riding shotgun that might just reach out and turn the wheel while you are on the highway. Anyone who has driven with autopilot, how quickly might it react to a perceived obstacle? Would it take a hard turn into a median faster than a person could reasonably react if it thought there was something in the roa…

I use autopilot daily. It drives me, on a twisty road, from my house to work with intervention when I get into town. > how quickly might it react to a perceived obstacle? I've had it head towards a curbed median in the middle of the road and within 10 feet swerve to the right to miss it (in a spot that I've driven by hundreds of times, but this time it kinda decided to head towards the curbed median). Auto pilot can…

[deleted]

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#145
This happened 2 years ago.

It was a left-hand exit (why are those even a thing?).

The seperator did not have contracting protectors because a car had previously crashed into them, I wonder why.

No one ever dies in car accidents.

Hence, Tesla is super bad for marketing its autopilot according to HN.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#146

This is sad and tragic. I remember going with a friend on a Tesla test drive. He was eager to try the Autopilot system. And within a few minutes we got freaked out with what seem to us as unpredictable action and we turned it off. I think the engineer should have never relied on it. Especially if he had concerns with the system. At the same time, "Autopilot" is misleading and Tesla does own responsibility here. Even…

I think self driving cars are a ridiculous solution to a problem we created and doesn't need to exist. The US building out the country for cars wasn't a good way to do transportation. If we just had trains going from city to city and subways in the cities, we wouldn't even need self driving cars.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#147
post #7

Don't text and autopilot on level 3, which is a nascent technology. An engineer should know better. Wonder why a level 3 is allowed to market as an 'autopilot'.

> Wonder why a level 3 is allowed to market as an 'autopilot'.

The argument I have heard (Which I disagree with) is that "Autopilots" in aviation (where the term comes from) does not mean "You can go to sleep" but still needs constant monitoring.

Therefore calling this "Autopilot" is technically correct and therefore accurate.

My argument that the technical definition and the definition known by the general public (Which seems to be closer to the sleepy-time definition) is different enough that calling it "Autopilot" is dangerously misleading.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#148
post #30

This is sad and tragic. I remember going with a friend on a Tesla test drive. He was eager to try the Autopilot system. And within a few minutes we got freaked out with what seem to us as unpredictable action and we turned it off. I think the engineer should have never relied on it. Especially if he had concerns with the system. At the same time, "Autopilot" is misleading and Tesla does own responsibility here. Even…

Autopilot never meant full automatic control. In a plane context, which was the most common until now, it's only used to keep a trajectory steady, and anything unusual has to be taken care of by a human pilot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilot > Autopilots do not replace human operators, but instead they assist them in controlling the vehicle. Names don't really mean anything, it could have been named anything.…

Every single time this is posted, I have to remind people that the video posted on Tesla's own Autopilot website [0] says this RIGHT at the beginning:

"The person in the driver's seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself"

They are not saying "use with caution, autopilot is an assistance feature", they are saying "The car is driving itself".

[0] https://www.tesla.com/autopilot

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#149
post #26

Last stat i saw was something along the lines of 3k people dieing in crashes everyday. I personally "almost crash" at least 4 times a day. Driving is a dangerous game.

> I personally "almost crash" at least 4 times a day

You probably should not be driving.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#150
post #48

I am intrigued by Teslas, and am considering purchasing one. However, I would feel better about the purchase if there was absolutely no autopilot software or hardware on board. Ideally that would mean zero , including non-autopilot builds of all system and control software so there is no chance the car will ever engage autopilot. Is it possible to buy a Tesla completely devoid of autopilot, or is this type of acciden…

Every tesla you can buy new has autopilot hardware and software for level 2 autonomy features. Certain older builds have different hardware. There is an additional cost you can pay for called "Full Self Driving". This fee enables some new functionality like summon mode and the car changing lanes itself when you indicate a lane change. This fee is borderline fraud as people who leased early model 3 cars didn't receive…

Autosteer is also disabled by default and must first be enabled in the settings menu while the car is in park.
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