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Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

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Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#171

Post by reaperducer »

notyourday wrote: post #159
notJim wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Portland, OR, but I never saw anyone use it in Brooklyn, either. Though NYC is incredibly backwards as far as payment technology goes, and most places strongly prefer cash. I still get your reaction sometimes, or that look that says "I'm tolerating this, but you're annoying me."

I'm starting to see QR codes on food trucks downtown that used to be cash only. Not gourmet ones but your average Chinese, Halal, breakfast/lunch etc.

I think the QR codes are usually an indication of AliPay or some other Chinese app. I'm sure someone here can elaborate or correct me.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#172

Post by _bxg1 »

thesimon wrote: post #154
_bxg1 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contactless is also a security concern on actual cards. It only stores a single number (like the stripe, unlike the chips or phone-based NFC), and it effectively "broadcasts" it in a radius of a couple of inches. Very easy to skim even while it's still in your pocket.

>Very easy to skim even while it's still in your pocket Do you have any details on that? From my understanding skimming is mostly an issue for magstripe, as contactless (at least in the proper EMV implementation) is cryptographically secured. There is not much to skim. I'm aware of a few papers on relay or downgrade attacks, but I would consider them mostly of theoretical relevance (e.g. https://www.usenix.org/system…

I'm 90% sure that NFC on a card can't do any kind of dynamic token generation, so it'd be the same token every time. Even if it isn't your actual credit card number, that would mean you could at least use a copy of it at other contactless terminals.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#173

Post by _bxg1 »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #147
_bxg1 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contactless is also a security concern on actual cards. It only stores a single number (like the stripe, unlike the chips or phone-based NFC), and it effectively "broadcasts" it in a radius of a couple of inches. Very easy to skim even while it's still in your pocket.

> It only stores a single number (like the stripe, unlike the chips or phone-based NFC), and it effectively "broadcasts" it in a radius of a couple of inches This is only for magstripe-emulation contactless, which is very regrettably a thing, thanks United States! The civilised world uses true EMV contactless. Edit: Huh, even the US will be forced to use EMV contactless soon, apparently. Makes sense that Visa and Mas…

From a quick search, it sounds like "EMV contactless" means the NFC circuit follows the same procedure as "the chip" instead of the same procedure as the magstripe? If so, that would indeed solve the problem

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#174

Post by reaperducer »

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #107
mrosett wrote: post #15

I thought Apple pay was really dumb... and then I started using it. Especially with an Apple Watch: when I get to checkout, I can fumble with my wallet, dig out a card, wait ten seconds for the chip to read, and then put the card away.... or I can tap a button on my watch twice and wave it near the reader. Done.

Agreed, I use Apple Pay semi-frequently, but in my experience the ergonomics taken a step back since I upgraded my iPhone. I went from pulling my phone out of my pocket with my thumb already on Touch ID > hold near reader > paid to pulling my phone out > hold near reader > phone says get face closer > double tapping the lock screen button which is kind of out of the way on my iPhone 11, and I've locked the screen ina…

pulling my phone out > hold near reader > phone says get face closer > double tapping the lock screen button which is kind of out of the way on my iPhone 11

You're doing it wrong.

Pull phone out → double-click wallet button → Authenticate face → Hold next to reader → done.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#175

Post by 1123581321 »

denzil_correa wrote: post #120
1123581321 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I’m not sure, I say “Apple Pay okay?” to the cashier first in what I hope is a friendly way. Sometimes they’re not sure and will say, “you can try,” and then it feels more okay to give it a shot. Feeling rude happens because when you suddenly produce your phone or watch, you suddenly reveal you’ve been thinking of the transaction differently and maybe that the cashier was incorrect or ignorant to assume you would…

Sometimes, the cashier says "not ok" despite being "ok".

Yes, I’ve had this happen and usually I just assent and pull out a card. Since I’ve just asked to avoid feeling rude, I’m probably not going to try Apple Pay in defiance of them.

When I’ve thought Apple Pay would have actually worked in that kind of situation, I try it next time I’m there (without asking first!)

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#176

Post by adrr »

nickhalfasleep wrote: post #115
notJim wrote: post #17

A big part of this is that apparently US credit card companies decided not to include contactless when they switched over to chip cards, in order to save money. Ironically, contactless was becoming fairly common before the move to EMV, but is now pretty rare. I think about half my cards had it a few years ago, but now none do.

I wonder if contactless will also gain favor as being less likely to spread disease. If you just wave the authentication device, it is less likely to communicate surface contamination.

All my credits cards(Amex and Chase) support contactless and work at most stores. Most people don’t know about it.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#177

Post by reaperducer »

ghaff wrote: post #58
mrosett wrote: post #15

I thought Apple pay was really dumb... and then I started using it. Especially with an Apple Watch: when I get to checkout, I can fumble with my wallet, dig out a card, wait ten seconds for the chip to read, and then put the card away.... or I can tap a button on my watch twice and wave it near the reader. Done.

It's nice when traveling with an Apple Watch outside the US. I can do transactions without the whole "sigh, I need to find a pen so this American can sign a receipt." (There's a fairly low limit to Apple Pay transactions for US accounts in some places but it's still nice to pick up a few items in a grocery store.)

I forgot to pack my traveling cards on a trip once and found myself on the Navajo Nation without any plastic.

Apple Pay on my Apple Watch saved my bacon. Hotel, restaurant, gift shop, trading post... every place that takes plastic there take Apple Pay.

I think the reason is that because of limited connectivity, they're a little late to the credit card game, so all of their terminals and processes are the new tech. There's no legacy gear or processes to upgrade from.

Which is similar for the whole credit card arena in general. People keep posting on here about America being backwards when it comes to credit cards and in the "civilized world" (Is there a more condescending Eurotrash phrase than that?) the banking system is more advanced. The fact is that America has had mass deployment of credit cards for far longer than other nations, so naturally it will take longer to upgrade. Greenfields are always easier to build on.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#178

Post by davidmurdoch »

kelnos wrote: post #43
notJim wrote: post #26

I honestly love Apple Pay, but I don't use it super often because it makes me self-conscious. I feel like a bit of a dick for some reason. If you try to do something "weird" and it doesn't work, people get annoyed, or it feels like an imposition. Even when it works, people sometimes make some kind of comment. Relatedly, it's unpredictable whether it will work or not. It usually does, as long as the card machine says…

I've gradually started getting over my similar feeling-like-a-dick sentiments. I definitely always have the worry that it's not going to work (Google Pay for me here, though), and occasionally I'll fumble to hold my phone in exactly the right way for the particular card reader I'm presented with. I still also feel like if I hand a card to a cashier, and it isn't working right, I implicitly blame the store or their eq…

Same here (Google Pay). I've tried a handful of times over the past 2 years or so and it has never worked for me.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#179

Post by hug »

kylorhall wrote: post #149
threeseed wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an odd comment. We haven't needed a PIN to buy anything like dinner in Australia for close to a decade now. Only exception is if you are going for a more expensive dinner where you might be. But then I doubt your credit card company is overriding that security precaution.

In AU/NZ think the default limit is like $75–$150, depending on the type of shop? With Apple/Google/etc Pay in AU/NZ, the same limit seems to apply as with chips. Above the limit, with Apple/etc Pay, I usually need to sign and have the card physically on you if the merchant asks for it. I think even my Paywave card requires a signature if used via Google Pay, but a Pin without, but I almost never use that one for lar…

Your comment is unclear, and I can't tell if you're talking about any of the above happening in Australia or elsewhere.

In Australia signatures are not considered a valid form of identification for transactions.

It's PIN or nothing.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#180

Post by crazygringo »

notyourday wrote: post #144
crazygringo wrote: post #141

I use Apple Pay mainly for two reasons (US-based): 1) Because rewards programs can be so lucrative per-category, I wind up using like 5 different credit cards constantly. That's too thick to keep in my wallet, so I never bothered before... but now it's effortless on my phone. Now I basically get 3-5% back on most stuff instead of the old 1-2%. It adds up. 2) Chips seem to degrade after a while, as anything contact-ba…

> Chips seem to degrade after a while, as anything contact-based seems finicky. Apple Pay doesn't always work on the first try... but it always works by the second. Which is more than I can say for credit cards, god only knows why. This is the most annoying thing . Chips seem to be much less reliable than the mag stripe and not all systems are NFC. On my daily usage cards in 1/3 of the cases it takes 2-3 tries ( ~30-…

I dunno, mag stripe was pretty bad too.

Remember when all the cashiers would keep some kind of plastic film or tape nearby to fold your card into so the mag stripe would read? Nobody knew why it worked, but it fixed the problem half the time. But I still remember having to call my credit card company to send me an early replacement about half the time due to a mag stripe that just didn't work anymore.

Chips are just equally bad in their own way. Some machines take an oddly high amount of force to push it in all the way (it feels like it's in earlier but it's not)... and then there's just some kind of wearing down of contact surfaces or something that blocks the connection other times.

It's funny, I never would have expected wireless to be more reliable than physical... but because there are no contacts to wear out, it really is over the long term.

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