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A popular self-driving car dataset is missing labels for hundreds of pedestrians

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Re: A popular self-driving car dataset is missing labels for hundreds of pedestrians

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simple idea is to do stuff like train your model on randomized subsets of your data and then compare its performance to using all the data you have. This doesn't overcome a true "black swan", but that's not what NN are meant to be doing anyhow.

"The simple idea is to do stuff like train your model on randomized subsets of your data and then compare its performance to using all the data you have." How do you do this when you cannot verify that your data, in subset or in whole, is accurate? And furthermore you don't know how inaccurate it is?

You need to have a known-good test dataset that is as representative as possible. Something that you are absolutely sure is golden - i.e. someone has gone through it manually and verified all the labels are correct and complete. Then it doesn't matter quite so much if your input labels are noisy, because if you perform well at test time, your model is working.

If you have no idea of the accuracy of any of your data then you're probably asking the wrong question of it. You can do things like test for consistency using cross-validation, e.g. does half of your dataset predict the other half with the same kind of performance? But that can't detect the same errors repeated throughout your data.

Re: A popular self-driving car dataset is missing labels for hundreds of pedestrians

#112
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lives at stake don't change anything here. The question is whether self-driving cars, even with the errors, are safer for people than regular drivers on average. If so, then absolutely yes everyone should bet their lives and their families'. Maybe logically that makes sense but from an ethical perspective I argue it's much more complicated than that (e.g. the trolley problem) In the current system if a human is at…

I'm voting for the "less dead people" option. Mostly because I'm a selfish person, been in automobile accidents caused by lapsing human attention, and I want it to be less likely that I'll die in a car crash.

I vote for that option as well.

So far, I have been killed exactly zero times in car crashes. All the empirical evidence tells me that there's no need to surrender control to a computer.

If I die in a crash, perhaps I'll change my mind...

Re: A popular self-driving car dataset is missing labels for hundreds of pedestrians

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is really scary. No, it's not even remotely "really scary". No one is putting an actual self-driving car on the market using this specific data set. Disingenuous to pretend this is any indication of the data using by serious companies in the space or is represented of the impact a few mislabelled samples have on the ability of these systems & algorithms to generalize.

> No one is putting an actual self-driving car on the market using this specific data set. Disingenuous to pretend this is any indication of the data using by serious companies in the space Are you sure about that? What about "non-serious" companies? Various fly-by-night self-driving startups? I mean, this sounds like the machine learning equivalent of "no serious business is pulling random bits of code from StackOve…

I've mentioned to a few people now that the first generation of self-driving cars don't scare me that much. It will be weird, but I assume that special care will be taken and the cars themselves will be quite risk-averse. I'm scared about the next generation of self-driving cars when we have "solved it" and the race is on to get cars out quickly and at low cost (and things like in-depth testing are out of budget). Hopefully regulations and testing frameworks catch up by then, but who knows.

Re: A popular self-driving car dataset is missing labels for hundreds of pedestrians

#114
It's a bit like saying "We found this store and it doesn't label kitchen knifes as potentially dangerous"... Nobody in their right mind would use this data set for developing a self-driving car and if one does, then they will not get a license to operate... And if by any chance they do it's still like stabbing other people with a knife snatched from the shelf a supermarket. You just don't do it.

Re: A popular self-driving car dataset is missing labels for hundreds of pedestrians

#115
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one is putting an actual self-driving car on the market using this specific data set. Disingenuous to pretend this is any indication of the data using by serious companies in the space Are you sure about that? What about "non-serious" companies? Various fly-by-night self-driving startups? I mean, this sounds like the machine learning equivalent of "no serious business is pulling random bits of code from StackOve…

Are you sure about that? What about "non-serious" companies? Various fly-by-night self-driving startups? Fly-by-night self-driving startups will at some point run into issues with the NHTSA. George Hotz self-driving car project was shut down as soon as he announced that he'd start selling some prototype. States require permits just to be allowed to test self-driving prototypes on the open road. I don't know what the…

It doesn't look like it was shut down? http://comma.ai

Re: A popular self-driving car dataset is missing labels for hundreds of pedestrians

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one is putting an actual self-driving car on the market using this specific data set. Disingenuous to pretend this is any indication of the data using by serious companies in the space Are you sure about that? What about "non-serious" companies? Various fly-by-night self-driving startups? I mean, this sounds like the machine learning equivalent of "no serious business is pulling random bits of code from StackOve…

I've mentioned to a few people now that the first generation of self-driving cars don't scare me that much. It will be weird, but I assume that special care will be taken and the cars themselves will be quite risk-averse. I'm scared about the next generation of self-driving cars when we have "solved it" and the race is on to get cars out quickly and at low cost (and things like in-depth testing are out of budget). Ho…

[deleted]

Re: A popular self-driving car dataset is missing labels for hundreds of pedestrians

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is really scary. No, it's not even remotely "really scary". No one is putting an actual self-driving car on the market using this specific data set. Disingenuous to pretend this is any indication of the data using by serious companies in the space or is represented of the impact a few mislabelled samples have on the ability of these systems & algorithms to generalize.

> No one is putting an actual self-driving car on the market using this specific data set. Disingenuous to pretend this is any indication of the data using by serious companies in the space Are you sure about that? What about "non-serious" companies? Various fly-by-night self-driving startups? I mean, this sounds like the machine learning equivalent of "no serious business is pulling random bits of code from StackOve…

> these days, JS ecosystem is getting a bad rap for having such bad code wrapped in neat and easy-to-install NPM packages.)

Is it? IME nobody seems to give a flying fuck outside of HN. Much like the PHP days. Or maybe I've never been in the right workplaces to notice.

Re: A popular self-driving car dataset is missing labels for hundreds of pedestrians

#118
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one is putting an actual self-driving car on the market using this specific data set. Disingenuous to pretend this is any indication of the data using by serious companies in the space Are you sure about that? What about "non-serious" companies? Various fly-by-night self-driving startups? I mean, this sounds like the machine learning equivalent of "no serious business is pulling random bits of code from StackOve…

Are you sure about that? What about "non-serious" companies? Various fly-by-night self-driving startups? Fly-by-night self-driving startups will at some point run into issues with the NHTSA. George Hotz self-driving car project was shut down as soon as he announced that he'd start selling some prototype. States require permits just to be allowed to test self-driving prototypes on the open road. I don't know what the…

No one stopped Uber, no one has stopped Tesla (Tesla hasn't been able deal with regression testing on a lane finding system...)

Re: A popular self-driving car dataset is missing labels for hundreds of pedestrians

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one is putting an actual self-driving car on the market using this specific data set. Disingenuous to pretend this is any indication of the data using by serious companies in the space Are you sure about that? What about "non-serious" companies? Various fly-by-night self-driving startups? I mean, this sounds like the machine learning equivalent of "no serious business is pulling random bits of code from StackOve…

I've mentioned to a few people now that the first generation of self-driving cars don't scare me that much. It will be weird, but I assume that special care will be taken and the cars themselves will be quite risk-averse. I'm scared about the next generation of self-driving cars when we have "solved it" and the race is on to get cars out quickly and at low cost (and things like in-depth testing are out of budget). Ho…

IMO to be "scared" of self driving cars they need to be more dangerous than any other random car on the street today, and the bar for that is pretty low.

Re: A popular self-driving car dataset is missing labels for hundreds of pedestrians

#120

While I am happy about their efforts, it's interesting that in the bottom left image of their example I can clearly see another unlabeled car in the lower left half (standing at the sidewalk of the street). Also, I am not sure, but it seems like there's a cyclist on the sidewalk, visible between the stroller and the car (the wheel and hands are more clearly visible). The google image marks a car and a few pedestrians…

Hey, OP here, yeah you’re correct. The dataset doesn’t label any obstacles that small/far in the distance. I zoomed in on the region with errors for the sake of the screenshot.

Here’s the original run through Google Vision AI. They actually don’t get the pedestrian either: https://imgur.com/a/84IVTV6

(I fired up the labeling tool I use and grabbed a recording of the few seconds of video around that frame to give an idea of what’s labeled in the dataset and what’s not at that imgur link as well)

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