Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why poor people make poor decisions

thecorrespondent.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 126 posts

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#41

Post by anongraddebt »

andonisus wrote: post #3

I've always thought it was unintended apathy. Making a (relatively) better choice will seemingly have no effect on lifting them out of poverty any time soon, so why bother? Do the thing that maximizes their pleasure, comfort, hope, etc. in the short term, because things are never going to change in the long term. This article seems to hint at this perspective when talking about not being able to take a break from pov…

I think this is likely the case.

A number of years ago my parents heard of a very young single mother in their community. She was being housed at a local woman's shelter, but was kicked out for continually breaking the rules regarding use of the stipend that was provided for each mother. She had two kids and nowhere to go, so my parents took her in for what they thought would be a couple weeks.

The weeks bled into months, and by the time that my parents thought she would be fine moving out, they had housed her for close to half a year.

My parents learned many new things about poverty by having her and her kids there for so long. One of the most significant was the severity of the mental/emotional/psychological strain that someone who is destitute is burdened with. My parents were able to find her a part-time job, they paid for everything, and cooked most of the meals. She struggled though to even just get up in the morning, let alone make it to work on time or even go at all. She lost the job. And sometimes all she could do was sit on the porch and chain smoke.

About a half a year later my parents decided that she was probably well enough to be independent. They worked with some other families in the community to get her an apartment, a car, and a new job (good pay and part-time). She still has a lot of struggles, but can now fend for herself.

I'm guessing some people who lift themselves from poverty are both lucky and have a psychological makeup which keeps them stable enough to do the necessary work in getting there. We either forget, ignore, or are ignorant of others that need a lot more hand-holding along the way.

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#42

Post by fma »

This article cites several research studies as well as the results of the casino in North Carolina and is a great read - and I hope people read it, digest it, and then comment (rather than comment based on the title).

This is actually what presidential candidate Andrew Yang is trying to change. He calls this the "Scarcity mindset" and it doesn't just affect poor decisions, but also inability to think about things like climate change.

This is why his proposal for Universal Basic Income of $1000 is believed to raise the poor's IQ by 13 points because having no money decrease your IQ by 13 points.

https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/how-to-increase-your-iq...

New Hampshire votes today for the Democrat primary...if you're in NH, you can change the country.

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#43

Post by wnevets »

umvi wrote: post #11

> Poverty is not a lack of character – it’s a lack of cash. No. Poverty is a lack of education and, more importantly, mentorship. I am battling this right now with my next door neighbors, who use HOC, a Maryland social service that basically puts poor people in middle class neighborhoods by subsidizing rent. My neighbors have money. They spend it extremely poorly. It's a single mom with 2 kids. Both kids have iPhones…

No, as someone who grew up quite poor I (my parents) needed cash.

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#44

Post by awb »

daenz wrote: post #30
metalliqaz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

those kids should have had the good sense to be born of a father that sticks around /s

Future mothers and fathers should exercise common sense to have a child only with a good partner. That's who that message is for, not the child.

If love was rational but it's filled with emotion. There are also plenty of partners above the poverty line that leave their families.

I'm not sure we'll ever get to a point where people don't make mistakes with important decisions.

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#45

Post by licebmi__at__ »

wufufufu wrote: post #18
umvi wrote: post #11

> Poverty is not a lack of character – it’s a lack of cash. No. Poverty is a lack of education and, more importantly, mentorship. I am battling this right now with my next door neighbors, who use HOC, a Maryland social service that basically puts poor people in middle class neighborhoods by subsidizing rent. My neighbors have money. They spend it extremely poorly. It's a single mom with 2 kids. Both kids have iPhones…

I agree, but I also think there's social cost to not spending your money on status symbols. You will be ostracized by the rich and educated groups for not fitting in, and then how will you acclimate to a higher social sphere? Example[1] [1] https://gizmodo.com/im-buying-an-iphone-because-im-ashamed-o... edit: Ok this obviously isn't black and white, but I'm saying this should be considered among other things.

I fully agree with you, but I couldn't think of a worst example that this article. It reads like someone complaining about being ostracized because of buying the wrong type of caviar or a non exclusive enough bottle of wine.

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#46

Post by happytoexplain »

vearwhershuh wrote: post #17

People don't need cash. That's the easy way out for intellectuals. And they sure as shit don't need a casino in their town. They need social infrastructure (families, extended families, social institutions like churches and service organizations), cultural infrastructure, and economic opportunity within this stable social structure. All of which the intellectual class has been helping the financial elites destroy for…

Where is this bitterness for such a generic category of people as "intellectuals" coming from? I totally agree with what you're saying except the blame of - who? All educated people? All smart people? (Unless you're using that word as a shorthand for something more specific that maybe I would agree with.)

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#47

Post by metalliqaz »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #9
andonisus wrote: post #3

I've always thought it was unintended apathy. Making a (relatively) better choice will seemingly have no effect on lifting them out of poverty any time soon, so why bother? Do the thing that maximizes their pleasure, comfort, hope, etc. in the short term, because things are never going to change in the long term. This article seems to hint at this perspective when talking about not being able to take a break from pov…

>No. Poverty is a lack of education and, more importantly, mentorship. Yep, you nailed it. A friend of mine was ranting on how the poor people(in Europe) spend their money on iPhones, cigars, alcohol and cable TV instead of saving it. Lately, I realized that poor people spend their money on those things since it's their way of short term escapism from feeling poor and if they were to save it, the amount would be too…

>spend their money on iPhones, cigars, alcohol and cable TV instead of saving it

Do you spend your money on those things instead of saving it?

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#48

Post by irpapakons »

vearwhershuh wrote: post #17

People don't need cash. That's the easy way out for intellectuals. And they sure as shit don't need a casino in their town. They need social infrastructure (families, extended families, social institutions like churches and service organizations), cultural infrastructure, and economic opportunity within this stable social structure. All of which the intellectual class has been helping the financial elites destroy for…

I don't know, as someone who grew up in a dysfunctional family, I feel like if your parents are not good parents you're basically screwed. You just have to wait until you're grown up and make that tech salary to pay your therapist for a long time.

If there is neglect or abuse at home, it doesn't matter if there's some mildly positive neighbours / aunts / church people, I think it's hard for that to make a real difference.

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#49

Post by 0x4477 »

tejtm wrote: post #10
exposay wrote: post #2

And poor decisions make people poor.

Those poor decisions however need not be theirs.

That may be so, but this idea does absolutely nothing to help someone get out of poverty. If you were born to financially illiterate parents and grow up poor or end up poor as a result, pointing to how it was stuff out of your control that made you poor will lead to nothing else but continuing to stay poor until you start doing things and making choices that lead you out of that situation.

It sucks and isn't really fair, but the person best equipped to extract you from poverty is you. No one can make your choices for you, and you're far better off taking your life into your own hands and working to improve it than hoping that greater society will intervene on your behalf simply because your situation isn't favourable to you or because you're not entirely to blame for ending up in it.

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#50

Post by caseysoftware »

vearwhershuh wrote: post #17

People don't need cash. That's the easy way out for intellectuals. And they sure as shit don't need a casino in their town. They need social infrastructure (families, extended families, social institutions like churches and service organizations), cultural infrastructure, and economic opportunity within this stable social structure. All of which the intellectual class has been helping the financial elites destroy for…

Cash is appealing because it's "cheap" and scalable.

It's a cold, clinical approach that lets "leaders" feel good and appeals to people at first glance but doesn't actually solve problems.

The things that will change people, families, and cities require true leadership, mentoring, holding people accountable, and friendship. It requires deep personal investment in people and neighborhoods and can't be done from an office downtown.

Post reply on HN