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Why poor people make poor decisions

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Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#31

Post by allovernow »

_lbaq wrote: post #15
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No. Poverty is a lack of education and, more importantly, mentorship. Yep, you nailed it. A friend of mine was ranting on how the poor people(in Europe) spend their money on iPhones, cigars, alcohol and cable TV instead of saving it. Lately, I realized that poor people spend their money on those things since it's their way of short term escapism from feeling poor and if they were to save it, the amount would be too…

>Unfortunately, most popele don't have the will or the guidance to figure this out. That is an incredibly naive way of looking at the problem.

Not at all. What's naive is presuming that people in poverty are just as driven and equipped to make good decisions as you are.

Whether poverty causes ignorance and complacency or the relationship is reversed (it probably goes both ways and depends on the person) there's no question that a sizable minority, if not the majority, of people in poverty are quite content to live off of the government and spend their days idle. Partly because of the mentioned lack of guidance, partly because of ignorance, and partly because not all people have ambitions beyond having their basic needs met.

You have to put yourself into the shoes of someone who did not pay any attention in school, if they attended. Has no real grasp of the utility of math or science or knowledge in general. No intrinsic thirst for learning or accomplishment. Take food, cigarettes, maybe other drugs (alcohol included) as funds permit, cheap entertainment (TV, Facebook, Instagram), and sex, and you have a recipe for millions of content lives which are a net cost to greater society.

And what's worse is that the children of these types of people grow up in a similar environment and pick up the same fundamentally rotten culture. Sorry to be harsh but this is the reality - no amount of funds will fix broken culture.

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#32

Post by awb »

lazyjones wrote: post #21
umvi wrote: post #11

> Poverty is not a lack of character – it’s a lack of cash. No. Poverty is a lack of education and, more importantly, mentorship. I am battling this right now with my next door neighbors, who use HOC, a Maryland social service that basically puts poor people in middle class neighborhoods by subsidizing rent. My neighbors have money. They spend it extremely poorly. It's a single mom with 2 kids. Both kids have iPhones…

> These kids need mentors more than they need cash. They need adults they can emulate who can help them break free from the viscious cycle. A father, perhaps?

Mentors can come in many forms. A father is one option but not the only one.

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#33

Post by whack »

umvi wrote: post #11

> Poverty is not a lack of character – it’s a lack of cash. No. Poverty is a lack of education and, more importantly, mentorship. I am battling this right now with my next door neighbors, who use HOC, a Maryland social service that basically puts poor people in middle class neighborhoods by subsidizing rent. My neighbors have money. They spend it extremely poorly. It's a single mom with 2 kids. Both kids have iPhones…

The article has referenced very robust empirical evidence demonstrating that cash infusions can significantly increase IQ, lower mental health problems, and lower rates of crime. Your kid-next-door story is great, but doesn't refute any of the above.

There are many ways of tackling poverty. Education and mentorship are certainly very valid ways. And so too is expanding the social safety net. I don't know about you, but I would love to live in a society where everyone is smarter, less violent, and less prone to acting out.

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#34

Post by ip26 »

umvi wrote: post #11

> Poverty is not a lack of character – it’s a lack of cash. No. Poverty is a lack of education and, more importantly, mentorship. I am battling this right now with my next door neighbors, who use HOC, a Maryland social service that basically puts poor people in middle class neighborhoods by subsidizing rent. My neighbors have money. They spend it extremely poorly. It's a single mom with 2 kids. Both kids have iPhones…

It sounds like HOC has found this kid a possible mentor. Without it, the kid would never have met someone like you.

As I understand, this is pretty much exactly the goal of such programs, to surround poor families stuck in the cycle with middle class knowledge/experience/wisdom.

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#35

Post by moralestapia »

umvi wrote: post #11

> Poverty is not a lack of character – it’s a lack of cash. No. Poverty is a lack of education and, more importantly, mentorship. I am battling this right now with my next door neighbors, who use HOC, a Maryland social service that basically puts poor people in middle class neighborhoods by subsidizing rent. My neighbors have money. They spend it extremely poorly. It's a single mom with 2 kids. Both kids have iPhones…

>No. Poverty is a lack of education and, more importantly, mentorship.

Privilege is invisible, or so they say. This is an extremely short-sighted approach to trying to find an explanation to poverty. It is also a lazy excuse to avoid thinking more, because it leads to a conclusion like "... hence why they're poor. That's it."

I hope one day you have the (mis?)fortune of living under precarious conditions, then you could judge by yourself if your preconceived notions are actually in agreement with what you will experience. And then we will see how long it takes you to "stop being poor", it shouldn't be long right?, as you, presumably, already know how to avoid making the kind of "poor decisions" that makes people stay in that situation.

Edit: Check out this comic and see if it opens up your mind a bit. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/the-wireless/373065/the-pencilswo...

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#36

Post by seneca »

andonisus wrote: post #3

I've always thought it was unintended apathy. Making a (relatively) better choice will seemingly have no effect on lifting them out of poverty any time soon, so why bother? Do the thing that maximizes their pleasure, comfort, hope, etc. in the short term, because things are never going to change in the long term. This article seems to hint at this perspective when talking about not being able to take a break from pov…

That's a lot of it. Having grown up poor myself, and having family and old connections that are still poor, I can tell you that there's another element to it as well.

A lot of poor people resent society due to their poverty. There's a constant meme that their poverty is some one else's fault ("the man", "the rich", "white people", "government", "minorities", "foreigners" are all common ones, depending who you're talking to). It's a defeatist point of view, but it does two things. It allows them to protect their egos by directing blame for their situation at other people. It also allows them to justify poor decisions, because the world is setup against them, so why bother? You will often see this kind of rhetoric if you spend casual time with people in poverty.

You'll also see a slightly different permutation of this, where some people in poverty see the way out as only possible through someone else's actions. Whether that be a charity, the government, or just a personal relationship. They feel very disempowered and defeated, and often look for events out of their control to "save" them, rather than taking actions to correct their situation. Again, why bother saving money if you can't fix the situation. You might as well have a good time while you wait for someone else to save you.

I, personally, believe these mental traps to be a non-trivial part of what keeps people in poverty.

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#37

Post by metalliqaz »

vearwhershuh wrote: post #17

People don't need cash. That's the easy way out for intellectuals. And they sure as shit don't need a casino in their town. They need social infrastructure (families, extended families, social institutions like churches and service organizations), cultural infrastructure, and economic opportunity within this stable social structure. All of which the intellectual class has been helping the financial elites destroy for…

That's nonsense. The only sliver of truth might be the waning of the influence of churches, which I might add, are not particularly helpful to when they decide to shun the members of the community who need the most help.

At least in my northern coastal state, there are lots and lots of family resources that were put in place as a result of the persistent work of the "intellectual class". Free library programs for all ages of children, free health education programs, and so on.

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#38

Post by dragonwriter »

umvi wrote: post #11

> Poverty is not a lack of character – it’s a lack of cash. No. Poverty is a lack of education and, more importantly, mentorship. I am battling this right now with my next door neighbors, who use HOC, a Maryland social service that basically puts poor people in middle class neighborhoods by subsidizing rent. My neighbors have money. They spend it extremely poorly. It's a single mom with 2 kids. Both kids have iPhones…

> > Poverty is not a lack of character – it’s a lack of cash.

> No. Poverty is a lack of education and, more importantly, mentorship.

No, poverty is a lack of material wealth.

A lack of education (of which mentorship is a component) may contribute to the durability of poverty, but it is far from the only factor which does so; active class discrimination in distribution of opportunity by the non-poor, both personally and through institutional, including public, policy, is also a factor.

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#39

Post by [deleted] »

umvi wrote: post #11

> Poverty is not a lack of character – it’s a lack of cash. No. Poverty is a lack of education and, more importantly, mentorship. I am battling this right now with my next door neighbors, who use HOC, a Maryland social service that basically puts poor people in middle class neighborhoods by subsidizing rent. My neighbors have money. They spend it extremely poorly. It's a single mom with 2 kids. Both kids have iPhones…

[deleted]

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#40

Post by rbrtl »

Reedx wrote: post #23
umvi wrote: post #11

> Poverty is not a lack of character – it’s a lack of cash. No. Poverty is a lack of education and, more importantly, mentorship. I am battling this right now with my next door neighbors, who use HOC, a Maryland social service that basically puts poor people in middle class neighborhoods by subsidizing rent. My neighbors have money. They spend it extremely poorly. It's a single mom with 2 kids. Both kids have iPhones…

Even if it was an insane amount of cash, it'd quickly disappear and end up in the same position or worse. Look at the outcomes of lottery winners and others who come into a sudden windfall. Even when it's not sudden, you have clogs to clogs in 3 generations. I think one of the biggest impacts we could make is to teach financial literacy in school, to everyone. Form and reinforce good habits early on. Demonstrate the…

This is the only lesson I really took away from Robert Kiyosaki's "Rich Dad, Poor Dad."

People will say what they will about the man, and his kin, that he's a peddler and just another business man out for himself. I'm sure much of that is true, and personally I can't reconcile the fact that he is personal friends with DJT...

However his strongest point throughout that book is that it is essential that people who want to 'make money' rather than taking it, need to be educated on the subject. He juxtaposes this with his view of the situation present: that people are only educated to become good workers, and to depend on one institution or another for their income.

I am still trying to internalise a lot of the sentiment from that book and my financial self-education will continue (I hope) for many more years.

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