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Why poor people make poor decisions

thecorrespondent.com

11–20 of 126 posts

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#11
> Poverty is not a lack of character – it’s a lack of cash.

No. Poverty is a lack of education and, more importantly, mentorship.

I am battling this right now with my next door neighbors, who use HOC, a Maryland social service that basically puts poor people in middle class neighborhoods by subsidizing rent.

My neighbors have money. They spend it extremely poorly. It's a single mom with 2 kids. Both kids have iPhones, iPads, PS4s, cable TV, you name it. I'm constantly cleaning up scratch-offs and cigarette butts from the shared sidewalk. Yet they are also on food stamps (SNAP) and near the end of the month the 11 year old boy inevitably starts coming over to our house for snacks because they are out of food. Just recently he boasted that his mom is going to buy him a brand new $1500 gaming rig. I remarked that seemed quite expensive and wondered where the money would come from. "tax return" he replied non-chalantly. He also said once they got their tax return they would be going to Disneyland.

I see this 11 year old boy on a trajectory for poverty. I've tried to help him with his math homework and with reading, but he is at a level far below his grade and seems to be constantly skipping school. He hates reading because his reading comprehension is low which means it will never improve because there are no adults in his life (other than me) trying to get him to read books. It's a viscious cycle. He has virtually no adult supervision or guidance (other than what I can offer when he occasionally comes over) because his single mom is always absent or in the hospital or sleeping or working or with boyfriend.

It would require an insane amount of cash to make it so the single mom didn't have to work, and even then, she is uneducated, can't help her kids with their homework, doesn't see the value in school having not used it herself, doesn't know how to be a good parent, not having had them herself, etc.

These kids need mentors more than they need cash. They need adults they can emulate who can help them break free from the viscious cycle.

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#12

I've always thought it was unintended apathy. Making a (relatively) better choice will seemingly have no effect on lifting them out of poverty any time soon, so why bother? Do the thing that maximizes their pleasure, comfort, hope, etc. in the short term, because things are never going to change in the long term. This article seems to hint at this perspective when talking about not being able to take a break from pov…

That's pretty much the idea behind Locus of control, the (perceived) degree of control you have over the outcome of the future vs outside forces beyond your control. If you don't believe it matters what you do, not wasting energy is the rational answer.

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#14
post #2

And poor decisions make people poor.

That isn't entirely true, though. Your parents being poor often means you will be too simply because of the disadvantages it brings. Being a teacher is hardly a poor decision, but you will probably be poor because other people have decided it isn't worth it to pay you well.

My ex has very little chance of being anything but poor, no matter the decisions he makes. He's on disability due to a mental disorder: Anyone that is on disability, especially at a young age (no matter reason), is in the same boat.

The business you work at could close. Even if you made good enough decisions so far, you may or may not bounce back well. You might not have ever made enough money to be able to save 3 months worth of expenses, for example, and this is more likely if you are young and simply haven't had a chance. Or you might get cancer while working somewhere that isn't covered by FMLA (in the US, anyway) - and while you aren't likely to die, you also have no job and no insurance.

On the contrary, you can pretty much pile on debt if you make enough money to make the monthly payments and never really be poor. Just indebted. Heck, this might even mean you qualify for loans easier in the future as long as you don't fall behind. The person that lives in their means cannot always find the same fate.

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#15

I've always thought it was unintended apathy. Making a (relatively) better choice will seemingly have no effect on lifting them out of poverty any time soon, so why bother? Do the thing that maximizes their pleasure, comfort, hope, etc. in the short term, because things are never going to change in the long term. This article seems to hint at this perspective when talking about not being able to take a break from pov…

>No. Poverty is a lack of education and, more importantly, mentorship. Yep, you nailed it. A friend of mine was ranting on how the poor people(in Europe) spend their money on iPhones, cigars, alcohol and cable TV instead of saving it. Lately, I realized that poor people spend their money on those things since it's their way of short term escapism from feeling poor and if they were to save it, the amount would be too…

>Unfortunately, most popele don't have the will or the guidance to figure this out.

That is an incredibly naive way of looking at the problem.

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#16

I've always thought it was unintended apathy. Making a (relatively) better choice will seemingly have no effect on lifting them out of poverty any time soon, so why bother? Do the thing that maximizes their pleasure, comfort, hope, etc. in the short term, because things are never going to change in the long term. This article seems to hint at this perspective when talking about not being able to take a break from pov…

>unintended apathy

I think there’s a psychology term for that, Learned Helplessness:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#17
People don't need cash. That's the easy way out for intellectuals. And they sure as shit don't need a casino in their town.

They need social infrastructure (families, extended families, social institutions like churches and service organizations), cultural infrastructure, and economic opportunity within this stable social structure.

All of which the intellectual class has been helping the financial elites destroy for the past century or more.

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#18
post #11

> Poverty is not a lack of character – it’s a lack of cash. No. Poverty is a lack of education and, more importantly, mentorship. I am battling this right now with my next door neighbors, who use HOC, a Maryland social service that basically puts poor people in middle class neighborhoods by subsidizing rent. My neighbors have money. They spend it extremely poorly. It's a single mom with 2 kids. Both kids have iPhones…

I agree, but I also think there's social cost to not spending your money on status symbols. You will be ostracized by the rich and educated groups for not fitting in, and then how will you acclimate to a higher social sphere? Example[1]

[1] https://gizmodo.com/im-buying-an-iphone-because-im-ashamed-o...

edit: Ok this obviously isn't black and white, but I'm saying this should be considered among other things.

Re: Why poor people make poor decisions

#19

I've always thought it was unintended apathy. Making a (relatively) better choice will seemingly have no effect on lifting them out of poverty any time soon, so why bother? Do the thing that maximizes their pleasure, comfort, hope, etc. in the short term, because things are never going to change in the long term. This article seems to hint at this perspective when talking about not being able to take a break from pov…

>unintended apathy.

I believe the psychological term for this is 'learned helplessness'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness

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