The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church • Hacker News Board

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#531

Post by alanwreath » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 8:27 PM UTC

darksaints wrote: post #350

alanwreath wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've just described FUD. Asking for more transparency isn't bad though - this would require a change in US law or wherever they operate. Start there. Then all religions might meet the standard you're describing. There are abusers in every organization and transparency would be good.

If they're as benevolent of an institution as they pretend, we wouldn't need such a law. They already can publish financial reports without any law compelling them to do so. But they aren't a benevolent institution.

Tried to respond a while back but was blocked, probably due to being nicked on a couple of my comments (probably from those who disagree - that’s fine). Just because an institution doesn’t go out and away to placate a minority’s concerns does not mean it is intentional or nefarious. Probably just means they’re focused on more than paper work.

Demanding they do so, and that others don’t seems rather suspect though. Why treat one religion different than another? There are plenty of people abusing the system. Proposing that all these institutions be placed under the same burden. It would be fair.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#532

Post by jki275 » Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 2:26 AM UTC

goto11 wrote: post #526

jki275 wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The discussion has generally been that some people think that statement was added. There’s quite a bit more to it though, and that’s certainly not the only possible - or even obvious - conclusion.

What do you find the obvious conclusion?

I don't take an "obvious conclusion" position on it. We simply don't know.

Jesus is a known historical figure. Pretending otherwise is silly. The end.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#533

Post by mola » Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 6:00 AM UTC

Fellshard wrote: post #489

mola wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think you have major misconceptions about social democrat ideology. Your 'ancestral sin' interpretation could easily be said on capitalists who don't have a problem with people capital fortune being decided mostly a birth. (You're born poor, you are likely to stay poor, you're born rich you're likely to stay rich no matter what you do). Or, You could also easily say that the Protestant morals equate physical…

None of what you just said aligns with reality. Being born into wealth lends a significant chance of mismanagement and losing that wealth. Protestants - not the megachurches that go by the label 'protestant', but believe nothing remotely related to Scripture - have no such conception. Lastly, you're moving what I said, narrowing the scope to 'democratic socialists'.

I don't believe your claims entirely really true:

1. It's very hard to lose wealth while in management. Networking and clique play a big part of the manager eco system. Plus, in the startup area, if you are an entrepreneur that his startup failed you are not considered a failure, far from it. It is also more likely for you to bean entrepreneur if yoy have a strong financial background.

2. This 'True Protestant Ideal' isn't relevant. This 'false Protestant' developed from a Protestant mindset, through a natural evolution of ideas. Plus, I think you'd find that a similar part of these so called 'True Protestant' make claims like those I made point with.

3. The only relevant left in the west, is social democratic. Maybe in the US less so, only Sanders could fit that description. But, I'm not from the US, so my default meaning of left is social democratic. Which left we're you speaking of?

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#534

Post by lcall » Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 5:43 PM UTC

wl wrote: post #522

lcall wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the key difference is that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints doesn't adopt the creeds (like Nicene ... in wikipedia) of the early centuries after Christ. We definitely do believe in the divinity and essential role of Jesus Christ as taught in the New Testament. For actual teachings, the Book of Mormon (with the Bible) is all about Christ. I believe one can search by topics, at, for example, http…

> We definitely do believe in the divinity and essential role of Jesus Christ as taught in the New Testament. Most Christians would disagree with the notion that Elohim and Jesus/Jehovah are two distinct beings and that this unity is found (albeit, not explicitly) in the NT. Furthermore, Jesus' role in the the Mormon Plan of Salvation is a significant departure from the soteriology people usually derive from the NT.…

Thanks for that thoughtful and interesting comment.

I am very grateful that the Book of Mormon promises that we can find out for ourselves if it is true, if we do it His way. Then, one has independent knowledge and can use it to go forward, and increase the knowledge with more & more applied experience. :)

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#535

Post by rachellogan5 » Wed, Feb 12, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

The specific dealings of the church aside, there are some seriously concerning philosophies coming out of all this. I wrote up a little something because I'm uncomfortable with the things I'm hearing members say.

https://apathofmyown.com/saving-for-a-rainy-day-prosperity-a...

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#536

Post by lcall » Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 5:39 PM UTC

lcall wrote: post #502

dorian-graph wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when Jesus was not very fond of amassing money I'm guessing you're talking about the moneychangers being thrown out of the temple ? There are examples recorded in the scriptures of tithes and offerings, and also of a people preparing/amassing the relative wealth/supplies (Noah, Joseph, etc). There are multiple levels of preparedness taught in the LDS church. The lowest, the family, being to only have necessary debt…

I am just me, not a Church leader, but I think it is for several reasons: 1) prophetically-encouraged preparedness, like in the days of Noah (food storage, avoiding debt, save for a rainy day, etc), 2) to best be able, long-term, to fulfill the divinely appointed mission of the Church to spread the teachings and voluntary systems that bring peace in this life and eternal life in the world to come. I have collected a…

For what it may be worth, there has been another, longer official response, w/ more good info: https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/use-of-the-... . (It links to reports froml interviews. One of the above links also itself links to other further info.)

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#537

Post by alanwreath » Mon, Feb 17, 2020, 6:47 PM UTC

godelski wrote: post #261

curiousgeorgio wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a situation where no one can win 100% of the time. Some people who are left alone after leaving the church complain that they're "alienated" by their neighbors, while those whose neighbors try to keep them involved are victims of "invasive harassment". And those who are content don't mention it, so no one hears about them. Any time I've heard of someone wishing not to be contacted, I've seen members…

> This sounds like a situation where no one can win 100% of the time. Some people who are left alone after leaving the church complain that they're "alienated" by their neighbors, while those whose neighbors try to keep them involved are victims of "invasive harassment". You're getting downvoted because both can be true. How would you feel if your closest friends and/or family stopped talking to you because of how th…

I've had something similar happen to me. My brother left the church and ever since the only thing he wants to do is talk to me (and my kids) about how I'm wrong to stay in the church. I don't recall us ever having a religious conversations prior to his exit so it's been a bit jarring. I get that he possibly feels he's got to share his point of view, but at some time (especially after he's made his point) he's got to let me live under my own understanding. And anyways I'd just like my brother back, he was fun.