The Disneyfication of a University • Hacker News Board

Re: The Disneyfication of a University

#201

Post by jimbokun » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 9:19 PM UTC

bumby wrote: post #136

alasdair_ wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your story reminds me of an anecdote in The Economist where an econ professor wondered why it was socially unacceptable to hire someone to help his friends move house rather than helping directly himself, when he didn't want to.

This made me genuinely chuckle. I love economic theories applied to real life when they border on absurd because they assume everything is about maximizing utility. I'll be sure to farm out all my spousal duties if I have better things to do and I'll report back on how that went.

"I'll be sure to farm out all my spousal duties..."

Careful that your spouse doesn't prefer the performance of those duties by the contractor to how you perform them.

Re: The Disneyfication of a University

#202

Post by dweekly » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 9:19 PM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #61

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #23

A good rule of thumb is that the more a corporation talks about "culture", the more the employees should be wary that they are getting fleeced. A lot of companies have realized that they get employees to work harder for less if they are able to get the employees to develop some sort of emotional attachment to the company. If you as an employee are getting a lot of push about "company culture" and the company is tryin…

> A lot of companies have realized that they get employees to work harder for less if they are able to get the employees to develop some sort of emotional attachment to the company. This is the kind of bullshit I inoculate myself against by telling myself: This is not your life. These are not your best friends. This is you farming gold out of a megacorp so you have the means to advance the story-driven missions that…

And yet, as the place where you spend more than half your waking hours, it is your life. If you have the option to connect with the people you are spending your hours with personally and authentically instead of holding them at arm's length with cool detachment, why not? We are all humans. And if you have the chance to drive a mission in the work that you do, then even moreso is there no reason to throw up a false barrier.

More broadly, people are lacking third place institutions like churches, fraternal service organizations, or neighborhood clubs to connect - when their coworkers throw up barriers to connecting, folks get awful lonely awfully quickly.

Re: The Disneyfication of a University

#203

Post by reggieband » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 9:22 PM UTC

nkrisc wrote: post #142

reggieband wrote: post #97

When I was a high-school student I hated pep rallies [1]. The entire school was dragged into our gym, sat on the bleachers while the football team ran into the room through a paper banner and various students on the pep squad would juggle, dance and force everyone to make some noise. It felt like a gigantic waste of time. Nearly 30 minutes for 450+ people. When I joined in the corporate drudgery I hated all of the eq…

It works, for better or for worse, because most people do believe in it. Most people like pep rallies (however hard for me to understand why). Most people like seeing their name in a powerpoint near a bunch of exclamation points and showered in clipart confetti. I never understood why we celebrated product launches. Half the time it seems the thing quietly dies a year later. Why don't we celebrate things that go on t…

> I don't really care much for celebrations

There is an anecdote related to Neils Bohr but possible only tangentially related to him [1]. From the linked article I've pasted the anecdote:

> Bohr used to keep a horseshoe on the door of his house. In European (and Indian) superstitions, the horseshoe is believed to be an object that guards the house against the evil spirits. A friend, upon seeing the horseshoe on the door of Bohr's house, asked Bohr as to whether he subscribed to the relevant superstitions. Bohr replied that he didn't believe in them but he was told that the horseshoe works whether or not one believes in their power.

Team rituals are like this horseshoe. They appear to work whether or not you believe in their power.

1. https://hsm.stackexchange.com/questions/8387/is-the-anecdote...

Re: The Disneyfication of a University

#204

Post by jimbokun » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 9:22 PM UTC

magduf wrote: post #187

Consultant32452 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One time my wife explained to me that she didn't feel like I appreciated her doing my laundry. I responded that she should stop doing my laundry. I didn't feel like it was her "job" to do the laundry and if it was the source of some emotional problem, it could easily be avoided. I thought I had solved the problem. She's my ex-wife now.

This reminds me of some web article I read a while ago complaining about how women suffer more "emotional labor" in relationships. It was of course written by a women, but to me, it really seemed like a lot of whining, which amounted to "I think all this stuff is necessary, so if my husband doesn't pitch in and do half of it, it's unfair." So, for instance, if the wife insists on having an immaculately clean house, a…

It might show, though, that those two people aren't very compatible and maybe not a good match for marriage.

Re: The Disneyfication of a University

#205

Post by devit » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 9:23 PM UTC

alasdair_ wrote: post #125

Consultant32452 wrote: post #65

The most common reason people leave companies is not compensation. It's usually about relationships, primarily with the boss but also coworkers. I'm on the spectrum, so I function a bit like an automaton which places little value on the social aspects of work, but most people aren't like that. This is how "on the spectrum" I am. One time I was on a team that did a team building exercise where we went to a local chari…

Your story reminds me of an anecdote in The Economist where an econ professor wondered why it was socially unacceptable to hire someone to help his friends move house rather than helping directly himself, when he didn't want to.

I don't think it's socially unacceptable to hire someone or purchase something for the benefit of a friend in general, especially if you are in a better position to do so than the friend (e.g. you run a service company in that field or are much wealthier than the friend).

However, in the particular case of moving, a friend might not want an untrusted stranger handling their belongings, so you would need their consent and they might not give it.

Re: The Disneyfication of a University

#206

Post by bitwize » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 9:26 PM UTC

ACow_Adonis wrote: post #177

nabla9 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Japanese companies came to the West some of them tried to push the Japanese company culture into their subsidiaries without any modifications. Starting workday with everyone standing in attention outside and singing company song when company flag was hoisted did not go well.

If by not go well, I'm assuming you mean adopted by many American firms. I'm assuming you're unfamiliar with "the Wal-Mart cheer". I'd love to say it was isolated, but my wife worked for a big 4 consultancy firm straight out of university. Just do a Google search for "Ernst and young happy day". I'd paste a link, but I'm afraid I'd actually have to watch it again...

Oh man, I'm getting flashbacks to the cringe I felt the first time I heard the KPMG song: https://youtu.be/NCvKXgp-Awo

It's no coincidence that corporate anthems like this sound similar to the Scientology hymn We Stand Tall: https://youtu.be/XyNh1j3dsp8

Re: The Disneyfication of a University

#207

Post by Loughla » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

jimbokun wrote: post #192

Loughla wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> According to federal figures, as of a few years ago, the number of non-academic administrative and professional employees at US colleges and universities has more than doubled in the past quarter century, outpacing the growth in the number of students or faculty.[a] Just as an aside - this does include professional staff, which is advisors, academic support staff, and other student facing services. The problem with…

> One of the two of those positions actually provide value to the student experience. It's not clear at all that academic coaches provide value to students. Being advised by actual professors would provide far more value to students.

>It's not clear at all that academic coaches provide value to students.

Whoa there, I need a citation for that, and I need a strong citation for that. It literally flies in the face of higher education research. Here's one study from the WWC, indicating strong evidence of effectiveness for coaching: https://ies.ed.gov/ncee/wwc/study/72030. And that was after 30 seconds of searching.

Actual professors provide value to upper-division students who (a) have a major already, (b) have study skills and other skills necessary for success, and (c) are at their terminal institution.

For the other (on my campus) 65% of students, coaches are more effective in terms of completion and spring to fall retention.

Re: The Disneyfication of a University

#208

Post by jimbokun » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

btrettel wrote: post #60

tdons wrote: post #6

Well written piece. I've been subjected to these kinds of 'workshops', and, like the author I too resent them. What's interesting is that many people (a majority?) in my organisation hated it too. Why do sessions like this keep getting organised? Why don't employees unite and speak up? What's in it for management? Deep down they must know that for most people attending, it doesn't add any value (it detracts).

Here's one example showing why people might be reluctant to speak out about wasteful training: (Sorry, this is a bit long!) Early in my PhD, I was made vice-president (or something like that; I don't actually remember) of the university's Society of Fire Protection Engineers (SFPE). This title was really only a formality as there were no duties aside from some training that the university required. The organization e…

> The entire event seemed to be motivated by lawyers' desire to reduce the university's liability in the event that someone drinks too much and dies.

Yeah, I think most of the time the purpose of these trainings is so the employee can't say "I didn't know I wasn't supposed to [harass people/reveal private customer data/accept bribes...]" and thereby reduce legal liability for the organization.

Re: The Disneyfication of a University

#209

Post by mattkrause » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 9:29 PM UTC

secabeen wrote: post #157

cs702 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't tell you if it's "out of control" (your words), but it sure is a salient -- i.e., prominent, noticeable -- example of bureaucratic growth. Whether the "corporatization" of US high education will prove a good or a bad thing in the long run, it remains to be seen.

A big driver of the bureaucratic growth is the growth in federal funding, and the significant documentation requirements that the federal government puts on recipients of Grant Funding. (This is things like effort reporting, overhead allocations, purchase applicability and allocability, etc. You can read many of the specific details in OMB Circular A-110: https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Circul..…

It's not federal funding per se; it's the requirements that come along with it, usually in the name of preventing 'fraud' or 'abuse'. I wholeheartedly believe you could spend a lot less on oversight, tolerate a small amount of wasteful spending, and come out far, far, far ahead. The flip side of this, however, is that some (usually Republican) congressman would be able to rant about how scientists are wasting your tax dollars.

Nobody, certainly not the dean, wants to deal with that kind of negative publicity. And so, every order gets stamped and signed and countersigned, often with an eight-by-ten color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining the "business purpose" of the item.

This still doesn't totally stop idiots from ranting about "Who buys video games and cocaine to monkeys?!" or "Why do shrimp need a treadmill?" However, it gives the university a little bit of cover--and since a lot of this work gets lumped in with other stuff, no one ever figures out how much time and money that wastes.

Re: The Disneyfication of a University

#210

Post by devit » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 9:30 PM UTC

Consultant32452 wrote: post #65

The most common reason people leave companies is not compensation. It's usually about relationships, primarily with the boss but also coworkers. I'm on the spectrum, so I function a bit like an automaton which places little value on the social aspects of work, but most people aren't like that. This is how "on the spectrum" I am. One time I was on a team that did a team building exercise where we went to a local chari…

The purpose of such a team building exercise is not to help the sick kids, but rather to do something that requires a lot of cooperation and interaction with your coworkers, so that you can get to know better their personality and behavior, and create habits and make emotional changes in the way you interact with them, which can in theory make you more effective at later working with them on problems that the company cares about.

Of course, it's not necessarily an effective use of time.