Mondragon Corporation

Post by Apocryphon » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 7:14 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #176

ianleeclark wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody is forcing profits. Shareholders? > If you want to start a non-profit aerospace company, nobody is stopping you. Yeah, just found an aerospace company. You don't need anything beyond hard-work and a can-do attitude. Definitely don't need decades worth of relationships, unimaginable capital, or readily hirable talent. You just gotta believe in yourself.

> Shareholders? The system doesn't force anyone to make a profit. If you borrow capital from people, your investors may demand a profit. But that's between you and your investors. Nobody is forcing you to take investment or sell equity in your company on the public markets. > Yeah, just found an aerospace company. You don't need anything beyond hard-work and a can-do attitude. Definitely don't need decades worth of r…

Post by orthecreedence » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 7:22 PM UTC

macspoofing wrote: post #97

irthomasthomas wrote: post #94

I thought Chomsky's quote was interesting. "Take the most advanced case: Mondragon. It’s worker owned, it’s not worker managed, although the management does come from the workforce often, but it’s in a market system and they still exploit workers in South America, and they do things that are harmful to the society as a whole and they have no choice. If you’re in a system where you must make profit in order to survive…

It's easy for anyone to take potshots from the sidelines, but surely Chomsky sees the economic, and humanitarian disasters that non-market based systems ALWAYS result in. What's the alternative here?

Post by taurath » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 7:40 PM UTC

hooverlunch wrote: post #129

kortilla wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you speak to the downsides of a democratic workplace? How do you avoid the pitfalls of a union where people end up getting compensated for things like seniority instead of skill?

We are developing a "thrivable" payscale that rewards each of the following: - relevant prior experience (before joining the coop) - longevity (aka seniority) - dependent care responsibilities - membership (a small raise once you become a member) The prior experience piece is determined with a points system, designed to take as much of the self-advocacy (with all of its race/gender/class pitfalls) out of the process…

Post by hooverlunch » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 7:55 PM UTC

orthecreedence wrote: post #264

hooverlunch wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are about to roll out a blog! Check https://sassafras.coop in a month or two...

Where did you register your .coop domain?

Post by tptacek » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 8:40 PM UTC

chishaku wrote: post #199

rayiner wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. A negative externality is a cost to a transaction that's not borne by one of the parties to the transaction (and thus cannot be priced into the transaction). "This job really sucks" is not an externality -- that fact is priced into what the worker demands in payment for performing that job. "Building this factory will incerase the risk of Terry down the street getting cancer" is an externality -- Terry is not a p…

This textbook response doesn't address what often happens in reality. Wages don't always capture the true costs of production. The public burden of the coal miner who gets lung cancer can be viewed as a negative externality. Indeed, many labor protections in the US seek to specifically address this type of externality.