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France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

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Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#281

Post by kbenson »

xmprt wrote: post #280
kbenson wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who is supposed to decide which ones get a notice and which ones don't? The ones that change a feature after the phone is sold when that feature was prominently marketed to consumers is a safe minimum threshold for what you need to notify your customers of. If they changed it after 6 months because of a battery design flaw, there would be a class action lawsuit for false advertising. Natural processes that all batt…

Upgrading a phone is changing a feature. For example, an update that added features to the control center but sacrificed some accessibility. Would you want Apple and other phone manufacturers to stop shipping updates? Because if what you propose goes into legislature there's a non-zero chance that will happen.

Changing is not the problem, unless that change removes functionality that was marketed as a feature.

> Because if what you propose goes into legislature there's a non-zero chance that will happen.

It's already covered. Apple was hit with a class-action[1] about this very thing, and France is fining them, as this submission notes. That's it working as expected, and it hasn't stopped updates from rolling out (but it might have stopped some specific portions of updates that people wouldn't have liked, who knows).

Either companies are to be held accountable for what they say when they are selling you something, or they aren't. I prefer a world where they are.

1: https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/10/16/apple-hit-with-ne...

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#282

Post by tripzilch »

manfredo wrote: post #254
catalogia wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going after big offenders first is just common sense. France did right to go after Apple first since that would make the biggest splash.

Right. And between going after Microsoft, Google, Facebook, and now Apple one really has to wonder if "biggest offender" just coincidentally seems to mean the same thing as "non-European offender" or if there's a reason for this pattern.

Well it's clearly not generally "non-European" since they all just happen to come from the same single country, one where it's culturally okay for corporations to do whatever the hell they like, so yeah ... it's not at all surprising that corporations from the US need a little bit more "guidance" to behave themselves in the EU.

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#283

Post by tripzilch »

pergadad wrote: post #268
manfredo wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. And between going after Microsoft, Google, Facebook, and now Apple one really has to wonder if "biggest offender" just coincidentally seems to mean the same thing as "non-European offender" or if there's a reason for this pattern.

So punish smaller European firms first just to not give the impression that it's anti-US? Or go after the companies actually doing it at scale and owning most of the market? What irrationality, twisting everything to be some secret anti-US agenda than to just assume/see the obvious that the big players are the big offenders and they happen to be US players (for now).

They actually said anti "non European", not anti-US. And it is anti-US for the very practical reason that FAANG and the rest, are all gigantic US corporations that consistently keep pushing the limits of EU regulations, abuse market dominance and won't listen to advisory rulings until years later it becomes law and they scream bloody free market.

It's not like many EU companies do that. And when they do, they also get fined, but they don't cry about it as much.

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#284

Post by takeda »

jmull wrote: post #231
takeda wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't they do what every other industry is doing? Have you wondered why in your phone battery degrades significantly after a year, in the mean time the battery in a hybrid such as Prius lasts about 10 years? They are overvolting them and don't implement mechanisms to keep battery change using optimal levels. Apple also pioneered the move to make batteries non-removeable (and other companies followed) most people…

Just to correct an incorrect fact: Apple’s phone batteries are replaceable. Just not by the average user. But in the same way you don’t have to trade your car in when it needs an oil change or new breaks, you don’t have to buy a new phone when the battery degrades. You can take it in for a non-prohibitive fee, or do it yourself for a little less if you’re a little more technical or adventurous.

iPhone batteries are replaceable as much as any other android non-removable batteries are. You know what I meant.

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#285

Post by xmprt »

kbenson wrote: post #281
xmprt wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upgrading a phone is changing a feature. For example, an update that added features to the control center but sacrificed some accessibility. Would you want Apple and other phone manufacturers to stop shipping updates? Because if what you propose goes into legislature there's a non-zero chance that will happen.

Changing is not the problem, unless that change removes functionality that was marketed as a feature. > Because if what you propose goes into legislature there's a non-zero chance that will happen. It's already covered. Apple was hit with a class-action[1] about this very thing, and France is fining them, as this submission notes. That's it working as expected, and it hasn't stopped updates from rolling out (but it m…

Let's say 6 hour battery life was advertised as a feature. Now your phone after 2 years of use only gets 4 hours of battery life. They changed the phone in an update that brought it back to 6 hours of battery life by sacrificing speed. You can't have the best of both worlds.

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#286

Post by kbenson »

xmprt wrote: post #285
kbenson wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Changing is not the problem, unless that change removes functionality that was marketed as a feature. > Because if what you propose goes into legislature there's a non-zero chance that will happen. It's already covered. Apple was hit with a class-action[1] about this very thing, and France is fining them, as this submission notes. That's it working as expected, and it hasn't stopped updates from rolling out (but it m…

Let's say 6 hour battery life was advertised as a feature. Now your phone after 2 years of use only gets 4 hours of battery life. They changed the phone in an update that brought it back to 6 hours of battery life by sacrificing speed. You can't have the best of both worlds.

Nobody is asking for the best of both worlds, but when upstream makes a decision as to how they want to prioritize one feature over another that changes how it currently functions, then some notification at a minimum is needed.

Batteries degrade over time. That's expected. Processors don't process fewer instructions over time though, that's someone making a decision, rather than letting the natural laws of physics play out.

Is that really such a foreign concept? You've been sold something with promises, and those promises are subject to natural occurrences and common conceptions, which are that some things will physically degrade without any outside action. Outside action to change that but at the expense of something that would not normally degrade, when it's about something that was marketed for sale, should not happen without notification and in most cases the ability to opt out.

Don't change how sold features are handled after sale if it flies in the face of assumptions without taking care about letting people know and opt out. It's not really that complex. All it requires is actually respecting your customers.

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#287

Post by thirdsun »

simion314 wrote: post #181
wmeredith wrote: post #124

This is so dumb. Apple has a lot of flaws but old hardware support certainly isn’t one of them. Firstly, they only slowed down older phones to prevent them from crashing as they had less and less reliable battery draw. Secondly, Apple’s support for legacy phone hardware is the best in the market. It’s absurd that they’re being punished for this.

>Firstly, they only slowed down older phones to prevent them from crashing as they had less and less reliable battery draw If you put aside any fanboys and think the reasons why Apple did this behind the user backs: - maybe the user won't notice and ask for a free battery replacement - maybe the user feels that the phone is slow and buys a new one and Apple makes more money - fixes the PR issues that phones close une…

It seems as if you're trying very hard to accuse a company whose mobile devices tend to be supported way longer than their competitor's of intentional wrongdoing.

It's an option the user shouldn't have to deal with. I'd say it's in any user's interest to keep their device running in stable conditions rather than preserving a slightly higher clock speed at all costs and risking random shutdowns.

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