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Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

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Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#331

Post by black_puppydog »

rafiki6 wrote: post #313

Has anyone here actually looked at the "anti-Firefox" ad in question? It's literally a tile that says "Still using Firefox? Edge is here!". I'm not really sure what we expected here. This is about the same as a browser asking you to make it default when you open it. All big companies do weird anti competitive things. This isn't one of those things. I know I'll likely get downvoted for this opinion, but to many commen…

This is Microsoft using their desktop operating system market share to drive their web browser market share. That's pretty much what they got sued for before. Given, their market position in desktop might be a different one now than back then. But it's still quite close to what antitrust laws were written against.

Also saying "oh all corps do stuff like that calm down" is a really bad defense IMO.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#332

Post by slgeorge »

overgard wrote: post #309
iso1631 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the last couple of years I've been coming round to the fact that microsoft aren't necessarily a major problem now, compared to google and amazon at least. Doesn't take much to put the shields back upto full. I just don't understand why people run windows. Maybe I just use computers wrong, having been on linux for the last 20 years, but my family (who I refuse to help with IT needs) are all far happier on chromeb…

I switched over to running desktop linux a couple months ago because I was so fed up with these things, but the truth is... it's just pretty bad. Like if I let my laptop go to sleep my touchpad will never work again. I had to do a bunch of weird kernel hacks to keep my wifi working when the device goes to sleep, and even then it's a hack (I had to enable the airplane mode button, and then make sure to hit it twice an…

Yes, you MUST buy certified hardware [0], preferably with it pre-loaded with Linux [1].

Ultimately, Linux didn't make enough of a dent in the desktop hardware space in the 90's/00's. The level of interest from hardware vendors (ODM/OEM/component manufacturers) has gone down - that's why things are worse.

If you don't use non-preloaded hardware you are NOT signalling to anyone that desktop Linux is important. This reduces overall interest - vendors think that no-one uses Linux - over the long run this reduces the amount of work done.

The take-away is please buy a DELL Sputnik with support - you are signalling to the market you want desktop Linux - and if it breaks you can complain!

I confess I only partially practise what I preach - I'm on a thinkpad =-)

[0] https://certification.ubuntu.com/ and there are other sites [1] https://www.dell.com/support/article/uk/en/ukbsdt1/sln310507...

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#333

Post by commoner »

rafiki6 wrote: post #313

Has anyone here actually looked at the "anti-Firefox" ad in question? It's literally a tile that says "Still using Firefox? Edge is here!". I'm not really sure what we expected here. This is about the same as a browser asking you to make it default when you open it. All big companies do weird anti competitive things. This isn't one of those things. I know I'll likely get downvoted for this opinion, but to many commen…

Many people did not appreciate Microsoft's acquisition of GitHub, and Azure wouldn't be very successful if it didn't support Linux (the predominant server operating system).

It is completely reasonable to be skeptical of Microsoft's actions here, as they have a history of anticompetitive behavior in the web browser market.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrowserChoice.eu

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#334

Post by selectodude »

rafiki6 wrote: post #313

Has anyone here actually looked at the "anti-Firefox" ad in question? It's literally a tile that says "Still using Firefox? Edge is here!". I'm not really sure what we expected here. This is about the same as a browser asking you to make it default when you open it. All big companies do weird anti competitive things. This isn't one of those things. I know I'll likely get downvoted for this opinion, but to many commen…

>Does anyone who uses Firefox realize for a long while they were primarily funded by having Google pay them to be the default search engine?

They still are.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#335

Post by oefrha »

oefrha wrote: post #189

I’m certainly less triggered by this textual ad than Candy Crush Saga next the start menu even with my goddamn Pro license. Also it’s quite odd that Firefox is singled out.

Btw, I should add that the always-on OneDrive button placed in a prime spot of File Explorer so that you inevitably click on it by accident every so often which then launches OneDrive, plus the regular “security” nag that you aren’t backing up to OneDrive is way worse. Surprised no one even talks about this. (IIRC the OneDrive button can only be disabled via registry or group policy. Might not even be possible on Home Edition. Ridiculous.)

Disclosure: I was actually a dedicated OneDrive user back in the days. Even wrote a full blown CLI suite for it. I pulled the crap out when they decided that unlimited = 1TB.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#336

Post by mnm1 »

rafiki6 wrote: post #313

Has anyone here actually looked at the "anti-Firefox" ad in question? It's literally a tile that says "Still using Firefox? Edge is here!". I'm not really sure what we expected here. This is about the same as a browser asking you to make it default when you open it. All big companies do weird anti competitive things. This isn't one of those things. I know I'll likely get downvoted for this opinion, but to many commen…

It's probably not just the ads, but the fact that they have complete, unlimited access to one's machine to install apps and copy/modify data as they see fit that makes them worse than the MS of the 90's. To me, it's incredible anyone who cares at all about security would even consider Windows at this point, let alone large companies with company secrets and other private information. MS is likely mining through any file or data on any machine it wants. This invasion of privacy in many ways eclipses FB and Google, which provide services that can be avoided. This data collection is unavoidable on Windows. We don't even know the extent of the data collection, let alone what they're doing with it and they are doing it something like 90% of the installed PC user base or whatever their market share is these days. That's an incredible surveillance machine, likely the largest in the world. It's amazing to me people who work in tech can defend such practices and claim they are not a big deal. A lot of people just don't care at all about security, judging by their use of Windows.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#337

Post by miguelmota »

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #306
miguelmota wrote: post #279

Firefox is like a Toyota; it sometimes lacks the latest bells and whistles but it’s always been reliable and generally cares about your safety. Microsoft is pushing hard on Edge to get more users to use Bing and more Bing users means more search ad revenue.

> it sometimes lacks the latest bells and whistles but it’s always been reliable and generally cares about your safety. Automotive engineer for 20 years. How people still think Toyota today is Toyota of the 1990s, I have no idea. Pro Tip... Every car mfg uses the exact same suppliers. The seats in the Toyota Corrola are made by Johnson Controls, same as any GM. Hyundai builds the frame for Jeep Wrangler and other bod…

I agree it’s not best analogy but the point was that Firefox is more lightweight and implement more privacy and secure features than competitors.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#338

Post by jack_codes »

Permit wrote: post #327
latenightcoding wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some friends think I'm overreacting for refusing to use Microsoft products to this day, yes they have open sourced a lot of cool tech but they are still Microsoft. I felt vindicated when I bought a Lenovo laptop after using mac for the last 8+ years and found out you need to create a Microsoft account to use it!

>I felt vindicated when I bought a Lenovo laptop after using mac for the last 8+ years and found out you need to create a Microsoft account to use it! I don't have the same laptop so I can't comment on your exact situation. That said, I have a Windows machine and I am not using a Microsoft account to log in so your experience is not universal.

A colleague just bought a new desktop and set it up last weekend. He ran into Microsoft wanting him to login to a MS account _on initial install_. He ended up having to go into the BIOS to disable networking so he could force the installer to let him initially setup a local account. I don't know if this is for every install and is just my anecdotal perspective.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#339

Post by whywhywhywhy »

deaps wrote: post #324
rafiki6 wrote: post #313

Has anyone here actually looked at the "anti-Firefox" ad in question? It's literally a tile that says "Still using Firefox? Edge is here!". I'm not really sure what we expected here. This is about the same as a browser asking you to make it default when you open it. All big companies do weird anti competitive things. This isn't one of those things. I know I'll likely get downvoted for this opinion, but to many commen…

It's not an overreaction. It's literally a targeted ad showing up in your day to day work space. It's invasive. I switched to mac a long time ago, but I still have a Windows device because some things are just painful (or impossible) to use on a mac. The difference between using an application that prompts "make this default?" and a specifically targeted ad showing up on your start menu is that the user used the appl…

Apple does the same sort of thing these days, Music.app on my phone keeps showing me a full screen ad for Apple Music around a month, dismissed it about 5 times now.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#340

Post by ihuk »

stiray wrote: post #278
iso1631 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the last couple of years I've been coming round to the fact that microsoft aren't necessarily a major problem now, compared to google and amazon at least. Doesn't take much to put the shields back upto full. I just don't understand why people run windows. Maybe I just use computers wrong, having been on linux for the last 20 years, but my family (who I refuse to help with IT needs) are all far happier on chromeb…

> I just don't understand why people run windows I do. And just a disclaimer, I am using linux 100% on desktop (and prefer freebsd on servers). Where I run firefox, i3, terminal, evolution (as I am forced to use it due to Exchange support, while I actually prefer mutt) and this is it. I rarely run anything else that is windowed. The reason is simple. Linux desktop really sucks. Instead of whole community stepping tog…

My roommate at work used to give me grief for using MacBook. He used Ubuntu on some kind of Lenovo laptop. His keyboard would stop working at least once a day. I knew because he was using really loud mechanical keyboard. So I would give him grief about spending half his time "fixing" his Ubuntu. One of the best work roommates I ever had.

On a more serious note; I could not believe how little, at least from looking over my roommate's shoulder, Linux desktop experience improved since I last used it in 2005.

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