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When did Americans lose their British accents?

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Re: When did Americans lose their British accents?

#41

Post by dragonwriter »

foldr wrote: post #34
dragonwriter wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, just the particular fads, e.g., the one that drove the change to the non-rhoticity of RP, didn't exist in 15th century Britain. That the current accent is driven by a particular fad aimed at highlighting upper class status doesn't imply that class distinctions are novel, just the particular effort to demarcate them (which wasn't durable, obviously, as RP isn't exclusive to the upper classes.)

Sure, accents are partly markers of social status, but it's quite wrong to ascribe the diversity of accents in Britain to this. There was never a period where everyone in Britain spoke with the same accent.

> but it's quite wrong to ascribe the diversity of accents in Britain to this.

No one, AFAICT, did that. The reference to “modern British English” is not, as I read it, a reference to “the current diversity of British accents”, but rather “the current dominant British accent”.

Re: When did Americans lose their British accents?

#42

Post by foldr »

dragonwriter wrote: post #41
foldr wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, accents are partly markers of social status, but it's quite wrong to ascribe the diversity of accents in Britain to this. There was never a period where everyone in Britain spoke with the same accent.

> but it's quite wrong to ascribe the diversity of accents in Britain to this. No one, AFAICT, did that. The reference to “modern British English” is not, as I read it, a reference to “the current diversity of British accents”, but rather “the current dominant British accent”.

The current dominant British accent, if there is such a thing, isn't a marker of social status. If you're referring to RP, then hardly anyone even speaks RP nowadays (even the Queen only makes a half-assed effort...)

Re: When did Americans lose their British accents?

#43

Post by azangru »

abjecton wrote: post #6

Original pronunciation Shakespeare is a good example of this. It's performed with the sorts of accents people had in 16th/17th century England. To my ear as an English person, it sounds like a Westcountry accent, an example of an English accent which is still rhotic today. But other people might perceive it as being slightly American or Irish sounding.

There is a recording of a recent talk by David Crystal, where he gives a brief example of Shakespeare's pronunciation as compared with the British received pronunciation. He also makes a point that the rhotic pronunciation of Shakespeare's time is closer to today's American, and that some sounds typical of Shakespeare's pronunciation are now characteristic of regional dialects, including Westcountry, Yorkshire and Wales.

https://youtu.be/8ErWLOD_udY?t=2429

(Crystal, of course, being the linguist who worked on the reconstruction of Shakespeare's pronunciation, and consulted The Globe on it)

Re: When did Americans lose their British accents?

#44

Post by throwaway894345 »

jeffadotio wrote: post #3

This is an interesting read but the article cites no sources for its claims. Even the claims that refer to linguistics debunking other theories have no citation. It also makes some suspect statements. I live in New England and saying that it is hard to find someone who does not have an accent that links them to some New England locale is just silly. Then there is the claim that the “general American” accent heard on…

> I imagine NPR must recruit reporters exclusively from this region because it would be difficult to find the accent anywhere else

People can learn other accents. In the UK, there is (was?) a "BBC accent" which presumably didn't imply that every BBC personality was hired from a particular region.

Re: When did Americans lose their British accents?

#45

Post by adwww »

naasking wrote: post #35

Technically, there is no "British accent". There are many accents. Even people who grew up in different parts of London have different accents.

Although a lot of London's accents are currently blending into MLE - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicultural_London_English

Re: When did Americans lose their British accents?

#46

Post by brazzledazzle »

toyg wrote: post #40
david_draco wrote: post #10

I read somewhere that the American accent is closer to what British was like in the 1700-1800s. Later the Queen's family, which came from a corner of England, established its accent as the norm. So the American pronounciation is original, and the British one changed in the meantime. Not sure if this is true.

> the Queen’s family, which came from a corner of England First time I see Germany classified as “a corner of England”, lol. (To be fair, before the current crop, the English aristocracy spoke mainly French, and I guess France could be classed as “a corner of England” by people still a bit hung-up on the loss of Brittany...) RP English is heavily influenced by French and Germanic tones. Local dialects are very differ…

Isn’t South Africa a former Dutch colony?

Re: When did Americans lose their British accents?

#47

Post by rootbear »

abjecton wrote: post #6

Original pronunciation Shakespeare is a good example of this. It's performed with the sorts of accents people had in 16th/17th century England. To my ear as an English person, it sounds like a Westcountry accent, an example of an English accent which is still rhotic today. But other people might perceive it as being slightly American or Irish sounding.

When I first learned about these OP (Original Pronunciation) productions of Shakespeare, from a BBC news article on-line, they commented that it sounded like the English of North Carolina! If you are interested in this, I recommend "Pronouncing Shakespeare" by David Crystal. It documents how he worked with the Globe company on an OP performance of "Romeo and Juliet".

Re: When did Americans lose their British accents?

#48

Post by pinkfoot »

brazzledazzle wrote: post #46
toyg wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Queen’s family, which came from a corner of England First time I see Germany classified as “a corner of England”, lol. (To be fair, before the current crop, the English aristocracy spoke mainly French, and I guess France could be classed as “a corner of England” by people still a bit hung-up on the loss of Brittany...) RP English is heavily influenced by French and Germanic tones. Local dialects are very differ…

Isn’t South Africa a former Dutch colony?

Yip, and a former British colony.

Hence… 'A' is for aardvaark.

Re: When did Americans lose their British accents?

#49

Post by scoot »

toyg wrote: post #40
david_draco wrote: post #10

I read somewhere that the American accent is closer to what British was like in the 1700-1800s. Later the Queen's family, which came from a corner of England, established its accent as the norm. So the American pronounciation is original, and the British one changed in the meantime. Not sure if this is true.

> the Queen’s family, which came from a corner of England First time I see Germany classified as “a corner of England”, lol. (To be fair, before the current crop, the English aristocracy spoke mainly French, and I guess France could be classed as “a corner of England” by people still a bit hung-up on the loss of Brittany...) RP English is heavily influenced by French and Germanic tones. Local dialects are very differ…

The South African accent has a much stronger Dutch influence (from Afrikaans), despite the language being English.

Re: When did Americans lose their British accents?

#50

Post by Spooky23 »

jeffadotio wrote: post #3

This is an interesting read but the article cites no sources for its claims. Even the claims that refer to linguistics debunking other theories have no citation. It also makes some suspect statements. I live in New England and saying that it is hard to find someone who does not have an accent that links them to some New England locale is just silly. Then there is the claim that the “general American” accent heard on…

It depends on the circles that you find yourself in.

In most areas there's the homogenized, suburban communities with corporate folks who are from wherever and sound like they are from anywhere, and then the people who are from that place. In that group, you could get knocked on the head somewhere near Boston and wake up in some subdivision near Charlotte and have no idea where you are.

There are exceptions, but if you're a reporter seeking out regional dialects, you won't be hanging out in suburbia, and you'll find plenty of them, particularly in older or coastal places like New England and New York where they are everywhere!

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