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When did Americans lose their British accents?

mentalfloss.com

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Re: When did Americans lose their British accents?

#21

Post by cultus »

jaratec wrote: post #17
telesilla wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is basically considered fact. American is old-English. The same with Québécois and French.

I am not sure about these "facts". Why would quebec accent stay the same for centuries? Languages are unstable, especially their pronunciation. Consider also the extraordinary diversity of accents in uk. Did only one cross the Atlantic?

Smaller populations very reliably have slower-evolving language. Icelandic is similar to old Norse and old English. Just like you'll hear a lot of Iowan accents in Atlanta but not if you drive 80 miles outside of town.

Believe it or not, there is an entire field called linguistics that studies human language and how it evolves.

Re: When did Americans lose their British accents?

#24

Post by pfarrell »

jeffadotio wrote: post #3

This is an interesting read but the article cites no sources for its claims. Even the claims that refer to linguistics debunking other theories have no citation. It also makes some suspect statements. I live in New England and saying that it is hard to find someone who does not have an accent that links them to some New England locale is just silly. Then there is the claim that the “general American” accent heard on…

MentalFloss is recreational reading, not a peer-reviewed journal. This particular article didn’t seem to go anywhere. Usually I find articles from the dead tree version of the publication have a bit higher quality a bit more content that can lead you to seek deeper articles.

Re: When did Americans lose their British accents?

#25

Post by foldr »

telesilla wrote: post #12
david_draco wrote: post #10

I read somewhere that the American accent is closer to what British was like in the 1700-1800s. Later the Queen's family, which came from a corner of England, established its accent as the norm. So the American pronounciation is original, and the British one changed in the meantime. Not sure if this is true.

Yes, this is basically considered fact. American is old-English. The same with Québécois and French.

This is plainly not the case. The grain of truth here is that certain linguistic features common to many dialects of 16th century British English have been preserved in most dialects of American English, whereas most dialects of British English have lost these features. (E.g., most American English dialects are rhotic.) But there is ample evidence that many aspects of American English have changed in the past few hundred years. Americans are clearly not speaking some kind of fossilized dialect from the 15th century.

By the way, the term "Old English" strictly speaking refers to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English. No-one is claiming that Americans speak this language.

Re: When did Americans lose their British accents?

#26

Post by Tainnor »

jaratec wrote: post #17
telesilla wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is basically considered fact. American is old-English. The same with Québécois and French.

I am not sure about these "facts". Why would quebec accent stay the same for centuries? Languages are unstable, especially their pronunciation. Consider also the extraordinary diversity of accents in uk. Did only one cross the Atlantic?

It's true that languages generally change, but they don't necessarily change equally fast everywhere. See also this answer: https://linguistics.stackexchange.com/questions/4033/do-lang...

Re: When did Americans lose their British accents?

#27

Post by paleotrope »

telesilla wrote: post #12
david_draco wrote: post #10

I read somewhere that the American accent is closer to what British was like in the 1700-1800s. Later the Queen's family, which came from a corner of England, established its accent as the norm. So the American pronounciation is original, and the British one changed in the meantime. Not sure if this is true.

Yes, this is basically considered fact. American is old-English. The same with Québécois and French.

Yeah, in a way you could consider modern British English to be largely an affectation to denote class distinctions.

Re: When did Americans lose their British accents?

#28

Post by foldr »

paleotrope wrote: post #27
telesilla wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is basically considered fact. American is old-English. The same with Québécois and French.

Yeah, in a way you could consider modern British English to be largely an affectation to denote class distinctions.

Because class distinctions didn't exist in 15th century Britain?!

This is simply nonsense.

Re: When did Americans lose their British accents?

#29

Post by dragonwriter »

david_draco wrote: post #10

I read somewhere that the American accent is closer to what British was like in the 1700-1800s. Later the Queen's family, which came from a corner of England, established its accent as the norm. So the American pronounciation is original, and the British one changed in the meantime. Not sure if this is true.

> Not sure if this is true.

It's true to the extent that, as the article notes, the dominant British accent used to be rhotic (probounced-r) like General American, but became non-rhotic as a result of upper class fashion (which was copied in some parts of the US, producing the modern Boston accent, among others.)

But both sets of accents have evolved considerably otherwise, so it's not really true broadly, as best I understand.

Re: When did Americans lose their British accents?

#30

Post by dragonwriter »

foldr wrote: post #28
paleotrope wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, in a way you could consider modern British English to be largely an affectation to denote class distinctions.

Because class distinctions didn't exist in 15th century Britain?! This is simply nonsense.

No, just the particular fads, e.g., the one that drove the change to the non-rhoticity of RP, didn't exist in 15th century Britain.

That the current accent is driven by a particular fad aimed at highlighting upper class status doesn't imply that class distinctions are novel, just the particular effort to demarcate them (which wasn't durable, obviously, as RP isn't exclusive to the upper classes.)

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