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Mondragon Corporation

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Re: Mondragon Corporation

#51

Post by arkitaip »

nickbauman wrote: post #28
cies wrote: post #2

From the article: At Mondragon, there are agreed-upon wage ratios between executive work and field or factory work which earns a minimum wage. These ratios range from 3:1 to 9:1 in different cooperatives and average 5:1. That is, the general manager of an average Mondragon cooperative earns no more than 5 times as much as the theoretical minimum wage paid in their cooperative. For most workers, this ratio is smaller…

Does it matter if it's large? I was just talking to a friend who started a small company, merged with a bigger company and thought he had done everything right. After a few years, he regretted selling the company. Small is beautiful. We learned this as children. Challenge the mantra of size and growth.

I agree but let's also understand the damaging dynamics we see on HN everyday where some people consider a multi million dollar operation a "lifestyle business".

Re: Mondragon Corporation

#52

Post by thundergolfer »

antr wrote: post #47

I wouldn't hold Mondragon Corporation to a very high standard. Back in 2005-06 the company I worked in was intending to acquire Mondragon's wind turbine business (Ecotecnia). This was finally acquired by Alstom. During the due diligence we saw the high level of political corruption, and terrorism financing Mondragon was involved in. Very distrubing. Once we saw this, we stopped looking at the acquisition.

Got anything I can look at regarding the financing of terrorism? Wouldn’t that be extremely illegal and would absolutely need to be reported to the government?

Re: Mondragon Corporation

#53

Post by youdontknowtho »

antr wrote: post #47

I wouldn't hold Mondragon Corporation to a very high standard. Back in 2005-06 the company I worked in was intending to acquire Mondragon's wind turbine business (Ecotecnia). This was finally acquired by Alstom. During the due diligence we saw the high level of political corruption, and terrorism financing Mondragon was involved in. Very distrubing. Once we saw this, we stopped looking at the acquisition.

Terrorism? Edit: looking at your comment history I'm going to go with them supporting other left wing groups as your "terrorism"?

Re: Mondragon Corporation

#54

Post by whoisjuan »

youdontknowtho wrote: post #53
antr wrote: post #47

I wouldn't hold Mondragon Corporation to a very high standard. Back in 2005-06 the company I worked in was intending to acquire Mondragon's wind turbine business (Ecotecnia). This was finally acquired by Alstom. During the due diligence we saw the high level of political corruption, and terrorism financing Mondragon was involved in. Very distrubing. Once we saw this, we stopped looking at the acquisition.

Terrorism? Edit: looking at your comment history I'm going to go with them supporting other left wing groups as your "terrorism"?

I don’t know exactly what OP is referring to, but the Basque country in Spain is a region with certain separatist political actors that advocate/push for the independence of the Basque Country.

In the past this included ETA which was a separatist terrorist group from the Basque region. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA_(separatist_group)

ETA was most definitely a terrorist group, infamously known worldwide for their use of car bombs.

Re: Mondragon Corporation

#55

Post by antr »

youdontknowtho wrote: post #53
antr wrote: post #47

I wouldn't hold Mondragon Corporation to a very high standard. Back in 2005-06 the company I worked in was intending to acquire Mondragon's wind turbine business (Ecotecnia). This was finally acquired by Alstom. During the due diligence we saw the high level of political corruption, and terrorism financing Mondragon was involved in. Very distrubing. Once we saw this, we stopped looking at the acquisition.

Terrorism? Edit: looking at your comment history I'm going to go with them supporting other left wing groups as your "terrorism"?

Comment history? Left wing groups terrorists? Please enlighten us with your research.

Re: Mondragon Corporation

#56

Post by antr »

thundergolfer wrote: post #52
antr wrote: post #47

I wouldn't hold Mondragon Corporation to a very high standard. Back in 2005-06 the company I worked in was intending to acquire Mondragon's wind turbine business (Ecotecnia). This was finally acquired by Alstom. During the due diligence we saw the high level of political corruption, and terrorism financing Mondragon was involved in. Very distrubing. Once we saw this, we stopped looking at the acquisition.

Got anything I can look at regarding the financing of terrorism? Wouldn’t that be extremely illegal and would absolutely need to be reported to the government?

We did.

The Mondragon Group already had some history of financing terrorism(1), but we didn't know affiliates outside the Basque Country could be involved. Ecotecnia was based in Barcelona.

(1): http://www.interior.gob.es/noticias/detalle/-/journal_conten...

Re: Mondragon Corporation

#57

Post by usrusr »

hawkice wrote: post #43
bprieto wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interesting thing about this wage ratio is they had to increase it in the beginning of the cooperative because very few people were willing to take more responsibility for little more pay. So maybe there is a study to be done about what could be the optimum wage ratio that allows a company to attract top talent for management positions and at the same time is not perceived as injust and exploitative by the lower…

There is a difference between pay so poor no one is willing to take the job and pay good enough to get top talent. Clearing the first hurdle doesn't say anything about the second.

But the same is true for all the lower ranks. It's one thing to pay enough to get someone to do the job and another to get the best for the role. A believable promise that the employer won't suppress low end wages for the benefit of C-suite compensation can be very attractive, even if the initial offer has exactly the same numbers on it.

A weak CEO with strong people beneath him can still very much succeed, but the best CEO in the world won't help a company with otherwise sub-par employees.

And it's not just hiring: a company where people are not financially punished for sticking to what they are best at can have a huge advantage over a competitor ravaged by the Peter Principle because that's the only way to get a party of the pie.

Re: Mondragon Corporation

#58

Post by youdontknowtho »

antr wrote: post #55
youdontknowtho wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terrorism? Edit: looking at your comment history I'm going to go with them supporting other left wing groups as your "terrorism"?

Comment history? Left wing groups terrorists? Please enlighten us with your research.

You're an investor, it says so in your profile. Most of your comments have a fairly standard pro-markets anti-regulation view point. I was extrapolating that to be conservative but you could also be a liberal pro-markets type. So, my bad.

After doing some cursory googling, it looks like you were probably referring to the ETA. I would like to hear more about the terrorism and corruption, if you feel like going into it.

I have to admit, though, as an investor you and I see the world very very differently. If you don't mind me disagreeing with you I will try not to make any more assumptions.

Re: Mondragon Corporation

#59

Post by youdontknowtho »

whoisjuan wrote: post #54
youdontknowtho wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terrorism? Edit: looking at your comment history I'm going to go with them supporting other left wing groups as your "terrorism"?

I don’t know exactly what OP is referring to, but the Basque country in Spain is a region with certain separatist political actors that advocate/push for the independence of the Basque Country. In the past this included ETA which was a separatist terrorist group from the Basque region. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA_(separatist_group) ETA was most definitely a terrorist group, infamously known worldwide for thei…

ETA was a terrorist group, but they publicly announced an end to violence in 2011. They began the process of deescalation after 9/11.

It should also be mentioned that the UN had said that the Spanish occupation of the Basque region violated human rights.

Re: Mondragon Corporation

#60

Post by youdontknowtho »

antr wrote: post #55
youdontknowtho wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terrorism? Edit: looking at your comment history I'm going to go with them supporting other left wing groups as your "terrorism"?

Comment history? Left wing groups terrorists? Please enlighten us with your research.

I didn't say that they were left wing terrorist, but I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that you were referring to their support of left wing political parties.

Again, I assumed that you are a conservative or libertarian. I apologise. I'm sorry that I just assumed you were a right winger.

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