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Tracking systems of TV streaming devices

blog.acolyer.org

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Re: Tracking systems of TV streaming devices

#21

Post by izacus »

colechristensen wrote: post #2

I knew this was the case but the reminder is just more motivation to revert back to purchasing optical media, ripping it, and using mpv on a computer. I don't want my entertainment to be tied up with advertising. I don't want my whole life to be subject to metrics.

Optical media these days has a horribly intrusive DRM system, which prevents you from watching the content on most of PCs (see AACS 2.0 on Blu-Ray drives). Ripping them is pretty much impossible unless you do some very DMCA illegal firmware patching... and even that doesn't always work.

Re: Tracking systems of TV streaming devices

#22

Post by ubercow13 »

silon42 wrote: post #16
iso947 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite, effectively your device VPNs to the internet on port 443 to a non descript IP. You can either block it completely or allow everything through. The only hope is that device manufacturers are terrible, don’t implement certificate checks, and you can MITM everything by redirecting port 443 through a proxy.

The only choice is to block it.

Block https?

Re: Tracking systems of TV streaming devices

#23

Post by Razengan »

izacus wrote: post #21
colechristensen wrote: post #2

I knew this was the case but the reminder is just more motivation to revert back to purchasing optical media, ripping it, and using mpv on a computer. I don't want my entertainment to be tied up with advertising. I don't want my whole life to be subject to metrics.

Optical media these days has a horribly intrusive DRM system, which prevents you from watching the content on most of PCs (see AACS 2.0 on Blu-Ray drives). Ripping them is pretty much impossible unless you do some very DMCA illegal firmware patching... and even that doesn't always work.

P2P pirating we go then.

Re: Tracking systems of TV streaming devices

#24

Post by Nicksil »

chr1 wrote: post #3
colechristensen wrote: post #2

I knew this was the case but the reminder is just more motivation to revert back to purchasing optical media, ripping it, and using mpv on a computer. I don't want my entertainment to be tied up with advertising. I don't want my whole life to be subject to metrics.

Advertisement works because most people do not feel this way and are ok with metrics and adds as long as they get something back. Is that ok, or is there a rational argument why everyone should feel bad about being subject to metrics?

>most people do not feel this way and are ok with metrics and adds

Where did you get this information? I suspect most people have no idea what goes on behind the curtain.

Re: Tracking systems of TV streaming devices

#25

Post by Razengan »

chr1 wrote: post #3
colechristensen wrote: post #2

I knew this was the case but the reminder is just more motivation to revert back to purchasing optical media, ripping it, and using mpv on a computer. I don't want my entertainment to be tied up with advertising. I don't want my whole life to be subject to metrics.

Advertisement works because most people do not feel this way and are ok with metrics and adds as long as they get something back. Is that ok, or is there a rational argument why everyone should feel bad about being subject to metrics?

How many people do you know who have actually purchased something solely because of advertisement?

Sometimes I wonder if the whole pervasive advertisement racket isn’t a case of the emperor with no clothes, if not a front for more nefarious ends.

Re: Tracking systems of TV streaming devices

#26

Post by 867-5309 »

Bnshsysjab wrote: post #9
sdan wrote: post #6

After reading this, I think if everyone setup a Tor node just for TV, that’s be great (harder to identify who is watching what).

Did you actually read it? It literally says identifiers were sent irrespective of tracking settings. Tor only masks IP and that was never the intent of the Tor network and using it that way is a is a complete waste of resources that doesn’t solve anything.

tor would prove extremely painful to use with IPTV re speed and dropouts. identifiers may be avoided using packet inspection/rewrites but that is still far from a solid, PnP solution

Re: Tracking systems of TV streaming devices

#27

Post by stevenicr »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #11
chr1 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advertisement works because most people do not feel this way and are ok with metrics and adds as long as they get something back. Is that ok, or is there a rational argument why everyone should feel bad about being subject to metrics?

Advertising works because people have little choice in the matter. It's exploiting that people value "consumption with ads" more than "no consumption at all", and most are not skilled enough to remove the ads themselves. (It's not like they wouldn't do it if they knew how; remember the popularity of VCRs? Their main use case was that on a recorded show, you could fast-forward through ads.) People are not OK with metr…

Indeed. I had planned to purchase a few Roku devices for me and someone else. Then I stumbled upon an article describing the amount of third party data sharing and how it varies by channel. Stopped me from purchasing. And this is after a bit of research on streaming devices and plans and all that!

People in one of the online neighbor groups routinely ask about options for this channel or that channel and such as the lineup out here with some services seems to change regularly and lots of people are moving.. invariably someone squeeks about how great their Roku device is...

I ask them how they like the device sharing info about what is being watched and when with multiple third parties, If they knew that before purchasing, and if they tell other people who use it... every time the answer has been 'this is the first I've heard of this"

Re: Tracking systems of TV streaming devices

#28

Post by close04 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #17
colechristensen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignorance and acceptance aren't the same thing. Many people would be and regularly become disturbed by the amount of tracking, but it is complex and difficult to understand on purpose. GPDR tried to make it obvious but missed the mark, making everybody accept cookies is just a blind annoyance. The rational argument against tracking is the enormous power it enables. Humans aren't aware enough of how easily they can be…

> GPDR tried to make it obvious but missed the mark, making everybody accept cookies is just a blind annoyance. It's almost two years now, and while I don't think cookie warnings are GDPR's fault (it was earlier regulation, that was trying to give adtech industry a chance to self-regulate), I do have this feeling that it indeed missed the mark. I currently feel the problem is enforcement. There's loads of sites that…

See techcrunch, the site with one of the most anti-consumer cookie preference practices yet a site that is very often linked on the first page of HN. This is proof that even informed people will get over any reservations if the content piques their curiosity.

Re: Tracking systems of TV streaming devices

#29

Post by yomly »

chr1 wrote: post #3
colechristensen wrote: post #2

I knew this was the case but the reminder is just more motivation to revert back to purchasing optical media, ripping it, and using mpv on a computer. I don't want my entertainment to be tied up with advertising. I don't want my whole life to be subject to metrics.

Advertisement works because most people do not feel this way and are ok with metrics and adds as long as they get something back. Is that ok, or is there a rational argument why everyone should feel bad about being subject to metrics?

Don't know why you're getting downed for this, sample size of two:

My dad's response to "smart TVs send back everything you watch and Samsung are the worst" was "I expected as much..." Person who works for civil service who is not yet even 30 "our government is crazy inefficient, each service and their data are siloed and cannot talk to each other, so we can't know that Joe Bloggs in HMRC is the Joe Bloggs in the NHS and Joe Bloggs on this council tax register... Why can't everything be connected like it is with Google/Facebook. I find myself connecting things up so I get better suggestions"

In my opinion the surveillance economy is one bad leader away from a 1984 hell on earth but that opinion isn't nearly as prevalent as people in tech would hope. But it's also not constructive to patronize people with the opinion "oh it's because they don't know how bad it is..." etc

I think some people don't care. Some people see some of the value the metrics driven approaches can bring. Some people don't agree that the road to hell can be paved with good intentions.

After all I find it hard to believe that all those devs at Facebook and Google are categorically amoral - life isn't black and white like that

Re: Tracking systems of TV streaming devices

#30

Post by Bnshsysjab »

cameronbrown wrote: post #20
Bnshsysjab wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you actually read it? It literally says identifiers were sent irrespective of tracking settings. Tor only masks IP and that was never the intent of the Tor network and using it that way is a is a complete waste of resources that doesn’t solve anything.

> Tor only masks IP and that was never the intent of the Tor network and using it that way is a is a complete waste of resources that doesn’t solve anything More garbage traffic on Tor isn't necessarily a bad thing. It keeps others safe who actually do need it.

I don’t know a great deal about tor so maybe that’s true, but suggesting people use some convoluted routing in the name of privacy (which it doesn’t solve) isn’t the way to go about it.

If smashing TOR with bandwidth actually helps anonymise real users, then TOR should get in contact with BitTorrent client developers and get them to creat clients that split traffic over tor and non tor routes. That way they can create sanely manageable traffic from a very large volume of nodes, helping mask tor users far more than what a few obscurely routed tvs ever would.

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