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A moon landing in 2024? NASA says it'll happen

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Re: A moon landing in 2024? NASA says it'll happen

#141

Post by mattrp »

mandelbrotwurst wrote: post #66
NikolaeVarius wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good chunk of Apollo knowledge isn't very useful for various reasons. 1) The tribal knowledge to even implement Apollo era technology is pretty much gone 2) Apollo flight hardware doesn't exist, probably couldn't even be manufactured without extremely expensive tooling and build up to recreate outdated hardware. 3) Lots of Apollo era designs don't exist on paper. The F1 engine doesn't really even have a standard de…

Would you mind elaborating on that first point?

A little tangential but the SLS itself is an attempt to reuse technology off the shuttle... and yet, hundreds of billions later and nothing... the whole concept of technology repurposing is fine on paper... but for some reason NASA can’t even seem to do that right either. It’s a colossal mess...

Re: A moon landing in 2024? NASA says it'll happen

#142

Post by dmitriid »

matt-attack wrote: post #133
CydeWeys wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public has no appetite for dead astronauts. It's simply not workable to be so cavalier with astronaut lives, even if the astronauts themselves are willing.

Why does the public get an opinion on an individual’s life when they know the risks? To me that’s the height of hubris and is something that needs to get corrected if we’re to move forward.

The public is horrified at astronauts' death, politicians listen to public opinion, politicians cut budgets to "dangerous missions".

PR for space is a very tricky affair.

Re: A moon landing in 2024? NASA says it'll happen

#143

Post by magicmouse »

Absolutely no chance. NASA spent 20 years designing this new super rocket, never even built a single one of them; so it only exists on paper, and when you look closely at the design it is basically the Saturn 5 with some slight modifications.

The reason so many engineers jumped ship from NASA and went to work for SpaceX is that at least Elon is doing something with some alacrity. NASA is just a bunch of paper shuffling time wasters at this point (especially at the top). People forget that they subcontracted most of the Apollo project. Having civil servants who never get fired is not the way to achieve excellence in any product or service!

Re: A moon landing in 2024? NASA says it'll happen

#144

Post by fsloth »

2dollars27cents wrote: post #94
Aloha wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who did it are dead or dying, the tribal knowledge wasn't written down.

I'm sure this is a valid point, but I think it is overemphasized. Much of that tribal knowledge would have been very esoteric and focused on technologies that are no longer critical. for example, fabricating magnetic core memory. I'm sure some of the required skill is gone, but we don't need to use that memory technology anymore.

I think the computer aspects are not the most difficult part of the tech stack when dealing with space flight.

Re: A moon landing in 2024? NASA says it'll happen

#145

Post by thombat »

avmich wrote: post #65
thombat wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the per-year costing in [0], about 80% of the entire Apollo program cost was accrued before the first moon landing. That suggests that even just one mission will come with a substantial price ticket, even if no hardware is built for subsequent missions. [0] https://www.thespacereview.com/article/3737/1

Yes, but analogous 80% of the entire Artemis cost are also already spent and the results are there. Engines, launchers, spacecrafts (Apollo analog maiden LEO flight is expected this spring), electronics, power, communications...

Since the lander and gateway are yet to be built let alone tested (at least Wikipedia still has them as a "concept") it seems too soon to say what the final cost will be. By way of comparison the first full Apollo stack flight was 20 months before Apollo 11, which puts it close to the 60%-spend point, and that was some five years after the LM contract was placed.

Re: A moon landing in 2024? NASA says it'll happen

#147

Post by iso947 »

rst wrote: post #59
nine_k wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can always hire a commercial rocket SpaceX used to be their long-time partner.

It needs more than just the rocket. You also need a lunar lander, and all we have right now are paper sketches of designs that would take more than four years to finish and build, on conventional timelines. (One wild card is the SpaceX Starship, which Elon is talking about having some lunar capability for, on extremely aggressive timelines. But Starship is a risky project in all sorts of ways -- besides which, before…

> needs more than just the rocket. You also need a lunar lander

With blackjack. And hookers.

In fact forget the lunar lander.

Re: A moon landing in 2024? NASA says it'll happen

#148

Post by jakeinspace »

magicmouse wrote: post #143

Absolutely no chance. NASA spent 20 years designing this new super rocket, never even built a single one of them; so it only exists on paper, and when you look closely at the design it is basically the Saturn 5 with some slight modifications. The reason so many engineers jumped ship from NASA and went to work for SpaceX is that at least Elon is doing something with some alacrity. NASA is just a bunch of paper shuffli…

The SLS core stage is assembled and currently undergoing testing

Re: A moon landing in 2024? NASA says it'll happen

#149

Post by autokad »

magicmouse wrote: post #143

Absolutely no chance. NASA spent 20 years designing this new super rocket, never even built a single one of them; so it only exists on paper, and when you look closely at the design it is basically the Saturn 5 with some slight modifications. The reason so many engineers jumped ship from NASA and went to work for SpaceX is that at least Elon is doing something with some alacrity. NASA is just a bunch of paper shuffli…

NASA went from nothing to the moon in 10 years.

Re: A moon landing in 2024? NASA says it'll happen

#150

Post by nickserv »

magicmouse wrote: post #143

Absolutely no chance. NASA spent 20 years designing this new super rocket, never even built a single one of them; so it only exists on paper, and when you look closely at the design it is basically the Saturn 5 with some slight modifications. The reason so many engineers jumped ship from NASA and went to work for SpaceX is that at least Elon is doing something with some alacrity. NASA is just a bunch of paper shuffli…

SLS is repurposed Space Shuttle hardware, not related to Saturn.
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