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A moon landing in 2024? NASA says it'll happen

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Re: A moon landing in 2024? NASA says it'll happen

#131

Post by noelsusman »

carlosdp wrote: post #45
melling wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here we go again... Why I remember almost 6 years ago, after the Virgin Galactic crash, when we debated the merits of humans in space. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8540279 Anyway, I think I lost and people were confident that Virgin Galactic would soon be back. I’ll just repost one of my summary thoughts. The entire thread is worth reading. It’ll probably be repeated in some form today. “ Someone dying is dev…

I mean, we have already been exploring the solar system with machines, for a good while. Humans are much more capable today (and for the foreseeable future) at conducting a wide range of tasks in space than the machines we can currently send up. It could be argued it would be faster to send humans up to build the infrastructure for more humans now (in the near future) than it would be to wait for robotics to get adva…

What can a human in a spacesuit accomplish on the moon that a machine can't? It's a genuine question, though I'll admit my initial answer is not much.

Re: A moon landing in 2024? NASA says it'll happen

#132

Post by bhhaskin »

bobajeff wrote: post #92
carlosdp wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, we have already been exploring the solar system with machines, for a good while. Humans are much more capable today (and for the foreseeable future) at conducting a wide range of tasks in space than the machines we can currently send up. It could be argued it would be faster to send humans up to build the infrastructure for more humans now (in the near future) than it would be to wait for robotics to get adva…

Are you trying to tell me that in the era of Boston Dynamics' Spot Mini and Waymo/Tesla Autopilot we couldn't come up with robots capable of building space infrastructure for us?

Those are really good examples of exactly why we can't. All of those just have really good marketing behind them.

Spotmini at this point is kind of just a neat toy. It doesn't really do anything. It is definitely not autonomous and requires human intervention.

Self driving cars are a bit of a pipe dream unless there is a massive breakthrough in actual A.I. they don't work outside of ideal conditions. Driving in rain, snow, sunrise, sunset are all out of reach for the most part. As they lack human intuition and they can't react on the fly. For example there is no way it would be able to navigate a parking lot that needs to be repainted. But humans do all the time.

Re: A moon landing in 2024? NASA says it'll happen

#133

Post by matt-attack »

CydeWeys wrote: post #126
StillBored wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yawn, space is dangerous. We would all still be living in trees with this attitude. I don't believe that we can actually design a system that is safe like this, so yes it needs a lot of testing and iterative improvement. In the meantime, we need to use it to launch equipment and a few brave souls that understand the risks. Actually to add to that, I think putting timescales in front of something like this as a tenden…

The public has no appetite for dead astronauts. It's simply not workable to be so cavalier with astronaut lives, even if the astronauts themselves are willing.

Why does the public get an opinion on an individual’s life when they know the risks? To me that’s the height of hubris and is something that needs to get corrected if we’re to move forward.

Re: A moon landing in 2024? NASA says it'll happen

#134

Post by rmdashrfstar »

CydeWeys wrote: post #126
StillBored wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yawn, space is dangerous. We would all still be living in trees with this attitude. I don't believe that we can actually design a system that is safe like this, so yes it needs a lot of testing and iterative improvement. In the meantime, we need to use it to launch equipment and a few brave souls that understand the risks. Actually to add to that, I think putting timescales in front of something like this as a tenden…

The public has no appetite for dead astronauts. It's simply not workable to be so cavalier with astronaut lives, even if the astronauts themselves are willing.

That's why a private company can, should, and probably will be so cavalier to launch the willing astronauts.

Re: A moon landing in 2024? NASA says it'll happen

#135

Post by WalterBright »

anchpop wrote: post #4
Causality1 wrote: post #2

We/our government is completely unwilling to invest the multi-trillion dollar expense of creating a permanent moon colony. In light of that, I believe arguments to the effect of "a moon base would make Mars easier" are baseless since creating that type of installation on the moon would dwarf the cost of a single shot to Mars and back. In light of that, our current moon efforts are nothing but make-work doing things w…

Why would a permanent Moon base make Mars easier? Would the idea to build a space elevator or manufacture rockets and fuel there?

Because most of the technology needed on Mars can be proven on the Moon, which is far, far cheaper to reach and resupply.

Establishing a moon base and concentrating on making it self-sustaining is critical to any successful space penetration by humanity.

Re: A moon landing in 2024? NASA says it'll happen

#136

Post by sandis »

redis_mlc wrote: post #104

Can somebody explain what the benefit of sending men to the moon is? I mean science or engineering. I don't mean PR or funding visibility - you can get that by sponsoring a NASCAR ride. Both the Space Shuttle and ISS have been huge money sinks with no benefit. How will another moon visit be any different?

> Both the Space Shuttle and ISS have been huge money sinks with no benefit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spinoff_technologies

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_research_on_the_Int...

Re: A moon landing in 2024? NASA says it'll happen

#137

Post by trothamel »

noelsusman wrote: post #131
carlosdp wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, we have already been exploring the solar system with machines, for a good while. Humans are much more capable today (and for the foreseeable future) at conducting a wide range of tasks in space than the machines we can currently send up. It could be argued it would be faster to send humans up to build the infrastructure for more humans now (in the near future) than it would be to wait for robotics to get adva…

What can a human in a spacesuit accomplish on the moon that a machine can't? It's a genuine question, though I'll admit my initial answer is not much.

The human-driven rover on Apollo 17 drove 35.9 KM in the three days Apollo 17 spent on the moon. Lunkhod 2 went 39 KM, but it took from January to June 1973 to do so.

When the distance from Earth increases, machines become slower. Opportunity drove 45 KM, but it took 14 years.

Re: A moon landing in 2024? NASA says it'll happen

#138

Post by ehnto »

sandworm101 wrote: post #35

No chance. This isn't the 1950s. We don't just throw people atop rockets anymore. These are vehicles, aircraft. There is absolutely no way any of the current crop of space vehicles could be made ready for a trip to the moon anytime before 2024. Going beyond low orbit, away from the sub-45min return time, is something we haven't done in generations. The craft need to be tested, repeatedly. Each test flight then has to…

We launch people on rockets every year to the ISS.

Re: A moon landing in 2024? NASA says it'll happen

#139

Post by ehnto »

CydeWeys wrote: post #126
StillBored wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yawn, space is dangerous. We would all still be living in trees with this attitude. I don't believe that we can actually design a system that is safe like this, so yes it needs a lot of testing and iterative improvement. In the meantime, we need to use it to launch equipment and a few brave souls that understand the risks. Actually to add to that, I think putting timescales in front of something like this as a tenden…

The public has no appetite for dead astronauts. It's simply not workable to be so cavalier with astronaut lives, even if the astronauts themselves are willing.

I think you are right, but there is something wrong if we can't handle an astronaut or two for scientific progress yet are more than happy to throw bodies into the middle-east.

So I question whether or not it matters what the public thinks in this area. Maybe they can just do the work without making it a spectacle. Then an astronaut dies, it makes news for a bit, and the distracted populace moves on in a week.

Re: A moon landing in 2024? NASA says it'll happen

#140

Post by mattrp »

Someone wrote: post #42
sandworm101 wrote: post #35

No chance. This isn't the 1950s. We don't just throw people atop rockets anymore. These are vehicles, aircraft. There is absolutely no way any of the current crop of space vehicles could be made ready for a trip to the moon anytime before 2024. Going beyond low orbit, away from the sub-45min return time, is something we haven't done in generations. The craft need to be tested, repeatedly. Each test flight then has to…

Also, combine ”NASA says contracts to build a lunar lander could be awarded in late February or March.” with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Lunar_Module#History . For the LM, the contract was awarded in September 1962, and first flight (unmanned) was in January, 1968. So, even Apollo’s aggressive schedule needed more time to first flight than what NASA would have now between awarding the contract and landing hu…

Not to mention SLS which is just nonsense at this point. As well as the numerous delays on the demo missions to the ISS. This feels to me like an ultimatum to NASA... move the ball forward or get out of the game. I get the sense there is real fear we could lose the idea of ‘space’ if we don’t start showing some progress. As it stands now there isn’t a platform for the moon and there’s not going to be a platform by 2024 unless some really remarkable things start to happen.. I wouldn’t be surprised if Spacex does it but if it does I can’t imagine NASA will have anything other than token participation. Perhaps that is really for the best...
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