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Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

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Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#211

Post by fredophile »

jariel wrote: post #122
balfirevic wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might not have meant it like that, but to me it sounds like a great argument in favor of TN (I'm from neither Canada nor US, for what it's worth).

From a classically liberal perspective, it would seem like an argument for TN. i.e. you see the world in terms of 'how does this law help me now'. But from almost any other perspective it's not. TN visas are mostly 'one way' - to America. It's an opportunity to suck out the best talent (the fruit of public education) for no cost. Without real reciprocity, there's no benefit to Canadians who wouldn't use the opportuni…

TN visas have reciprocity. Americans in those fields can also go and work freely in Canada. However, when you factor in the difference in compensation it makes sense that more Canadians move to the US than vice versa. Big tech companies opening offices in Canada may shift that balance. I know I'd rather live and work in Vancouver than San Francisco if I was being paid the same amount for both.

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#212

Post by j45 »

frandroid wrote: post #28
prlambert wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there still would be: weather. There's literally no place in Canada that doesn't have a generally unpleasant outdoor experience for at least half the year. I say that as a proud Canadian. It's honestly the main thing holding my family from moving back. My wife is from Vancouver and hates snow. I'm from Calgary and can't take rain (I did 3 winters straight in Vancouver promising myself to never do another until I…

Toronto has none of Vancouver's rain and almost none of Calgary's snow. I wear running shoes for all save maybe 3 or 4 weeks of winter. -15 is considered a deep freeze and happens about 3 times per winter. What are you waiting for?

After many years of visiting Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary and Montreal yearly, for more than a week at a time..

Toronto is not perfect, it has some of the worst weather in Canada. Summers are too hot (due to humidity), and the winter is cold and windy (due to humidity).

It’s not much different than most places in Canada but the lakes add a bite to the -15 to make it feel like the rest of the country (save Vancouver). The rain is brutal in Vancouver, but can keep you busy like cold does in the rest of Canada. Canada’s winter months are synonymous with precipitation, and you might be surprised to find where the most sunshine is.

Most of my friends from Toronto rarely or meaningfully ever leave Toronto to have an informed opinion of all 4 seasons nationally.

Commuting time takes away years of waking living time in GTA and GVRC unless you live downtown, except many startups are leaving downtown for affordability and keeping their people happy. All of this can be balanced away if you get other things that are worth it, including market size relative to Canada.

There are a few entrepreneurial pockets like Waterloo, and even Kelowna that are worth paying attention to. I don’t live in any cities listed here but travel often instead.

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#213

Post by ta416425 »

parasubvert wrote: post #184
jariel wrote: post #107

As a Candian, it seems to me so very pathetically and predictably Canadian to literally herald the surrender of your own industries to foreign takeover. Canada is (often) to tech what Mexico is to cars. Mexican 'assembly' of cars is fine and good, but they don't exactly move up the value chain from there. Canada produces a lot of decent tech people, who will work for 2/3 the wages, unfortunately, this doesn't map to…

Canada is already nearly as big as Mexico for cars: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_car_exp... I’m not sure why you’re upset with the CBC over this, we’ve been a branch plant economy since the 1960s. A lot of this has to do with Canadian temperament and mindset, which isn’t particularly entrepreneurial due a dearth of leadership from its investor class. There have been many tech darlings out of C…

  I’m not sure why you’re upset with the CBC over this
Not just the CBC, but they do it a lot. There is this cloying "we've finally made it!" back-slapping the press reliably produces every time a well-known company announces an expansion, no matter how big or small, and really any time some positive PR comes out of the Canadian tech sector. The energy we spend congratulating ourselves for a job well done unintentionally lays bare how provincial we really are.

The reason this is so infuriating is the congratulatory rhetoric rings hollow for many Canadians with US work experience who realize how much better it is, in so many (but not all) ways, to be a tech worker in the US vs. in Canada.

To produce articles with the tone of the OP, you would need to be either myopic or disingenuous.

This is especially so in the context of a company like Google. If you're a Canadian engineer who can get a job at Google, your take-home pay after housing will be dramatically higher in the US than in Canada (if you don't like the lifestyle sacrifices that requires in the Bay Area or NYC, you can do better in umpteen smaller cities). All the while you will have access to better health care, lower wait times, and easy immigration status (TN).

  we’ve been a branch plant economy since the 1960s. A lot of
  this has to do with Canadian temperament and mindset, which
  isn’t particularly entrepreneurial due a dearth of
  leadership from its investor class.
No argument there. Those in Canada who really control the money are overwhelmingly complacent, more interested in maintaining what they have than taking real risks. Much of it isn't self-made, it's just inherited from early 20th century industrialists. Not that many modern self-made wealth stories other than a bunch of people speculating on real estate, literally collecting rent rather than adding productive capacity or consumer surplus.

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#214

Post by svrma »

I'm curious about the salaries and potential for career growth for software engineers with 5,10,15 years of experience in Canada. Levels.fyi is handy for the US salaries but not so much for Canada.

Fwiw, I am a foreign grad student currently happy with the lifestyle in Canada. But I'm wondering whether I've made the right career move moving to Canada.

edit: include career growth

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#215

Post by sandworm101 »

earth_walker wrote: post #182
tathougies wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you been to Alberta? Vancouver is not representative of canada.

It seems you're insinuating that Alberta is somehow more (U.S.) 'American' than the rest of Canada. I have lived in Alberta for over ten years, and though culturally distinct from the rest of Canada (as is every other province I've spent time in) Alberta's brand of rugged individualist / conservatism is still very Canadian. And though we may look very different to the urbanites of GVRD (Vancouver and surrounding) and…

Agreed. I lived in the us for five years, it was a shock. The big thing for me was the guns, the constant militarism. Albertans might own lots of guns but they don't take them to pizza hut. And cops everywhere. I was in seattle recently and counted 8 different TYPES of police car on a quick 4-block walk between buildings. Not car paint jobs, different types of police. ICE, fed, state, local, atf... America seems to have more police than not. Canada, all of canada, doesn't feel like that.

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#216

Post by stiray »

criddell wrote: post #200
stiray wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just love to hear this. /sarcasm on With 26 years in software development, low level linux (kernel "stuff") and low level windows (kernel "stuff" again), with work including from analyzing malware to writting DRM that was left unbroken for 3 years, to high level software, system administration on various unixes and unix like beasts, including low level networking, fluent in c, c++, asm x86/64, go and some "stuff" I…

Your advice at the end is good but I would add that you shouldn't let others take advantage of you. People aren't being paid $200k-$2M / year for reasons of charity. They get paid that much because their contribution to the company is higher than that.

And exactly this is the part where people have problem understanding. If there is no company that you could sell your knowlidge for the sallary you would like to have, it doesnt matter how good you are. I know lots of local developers that are top notch, earning even less, on the other side, forgive me the wording, I know a few midiocre people, that were kicked out of my company as incompetent (they really were incompetent) and later passed google interviews (before anyone says it, I dont want to work at google, there are other more honorable jobs like selling drugs to kids or selling arms to central africa - I'll pass those too)).

Bottom line, knowlidge is not worth a penny, it doesnt matter. Only how good you are to selling yourself and if there is no company preparing to offer you a higher sallary - relocate somewhere else. Or decide not to move and be satisfied with what you have. Like I decided my kid is more important than Tesla and bunch of expansive gadgets (while I do have long term ENTP/INTP relationship with a former photomodel that has IQ higher that anyone that was hitting on her though ;) ). And I am happy. More than most people running for money.

I will repeat it once again. Go for whatever makes you happy. Ignore the money, as a developer you will survive. Dont put money as your goal as you will be miserable at the end.

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#217

Post by liamdiprose »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #123
ma2rten wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think keeping people in your country by making it harder to leave is a good strategy.

IMHO when education is subsidized by public funds (which it is here), those funds should have to be repaid if you're leaving the country within a certain number of years or before you've paid some amount in income tax. That would improve the talent situation here.

In New Zealand, the government funds tertiary education with a zero-interest loan. If you move/work overseas, it becomes a regular loan with 4% interest.

It gives some pressure to stay in NZ, but in reality, talented engineers can get over double their salary abroad.

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#218

Post by raydev »

buzzkillington wrote: post #25
kaaie wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, if wages were competitive in Canada (even considering cost of living and health care) there would be no reason to move. Personally, I'd much rather be in Canada to be near my family but I'd be making 1/2 the wage and have less talent to learn and grow from.

Half is pretty generous, for mid/seniour developers it starts at a quarter and gets worse. I was looking to move because I like colder weather/climate change related reasons and I had one recruiter tell me "You can't possibly ever make that much, that's CEO pay!".

Several Bay Area companies are opening/expanding offices up here, especially in the last year. I've joined one of them and I suggest you start looking around. At least in Toronto.

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#219

Post by jariel »

fredophile wrote: post #211
jariel wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a classically liberal perspective, it would seem like an argument for TN. i.e. you see the world in terms of 'how does this law help me now'. But from almost any other perspective it's not. TN visas are mostly 'one way' - to America. It's an opportunity to suck out the best talent (the fruit of public education) for no cost. Without real reciprocity, there's no benefit to Canadians who wouldn't use the opportuni…

TN visas have reciprocity. Americans in those fields can also go and work freely in Canada. However, when you factor in the difference in compensation it makes sense that more Canadians move to the US than vice versa. Big tech companies opening offices in Canada may shift that balance. I know I'd rather live and work in Vancouver than San Francisco if I was being paid the same amount for both.

Yes, definitely there is legal reciprocity, but in reality, the talent flows in one direction.

True reciprocity would be more or less an equal exchange of talent. I think this might be beneficial.

There might be some opportunities for the Canadian government to effectively market itself in the USA.

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#220

Post by raydev »

As an American who's committed to staying in Canada until my kids leave the house, and who's experienced the Canadian hiring market for the last 10 years, I'm both excited and concerned.

Excited, because now that I've joined one of these SV companies recently expanding their presence Canada, my yearly TC is now an integer multiple of what I was making at a local small company.

But I'm also concerned, because the majority of Canadian companies absolutely cannot compete. At all. My fear is all the biggest talent will get sucked into US-based companies. Super hypocritical of me, I know.

Canada needs so many more Shopifys.

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