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Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

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Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#141
post #2

The cheap labour pool as a consequence of the weak Canadian dollar certainly helps, alongside having identical time zones and nearly identical culture to the United States. Lots of Canadian consultancies butter their bread with USD.

>> nearly identical culture to the United States. Lol. Maybe a similar culture to some parts of California or Washington, and that is a stretch, but Vancouver is very very different than "the United States". Live in both for a while and all the little difference (the guns, health care, government, police, civil-military relations, the environment, land use, education etc) add up to markedly different approaches to li…

Have you been to Alberta? Vancouver is not representative of canada.

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Senior roles in SF/NY pay >600k in total comp. I was flat out told there are no such jobs in Canada two years back. Has that changed?

Yes but not everybody can get to this level of compensation even in SF If you can grow, you'll grow pretty much everywhere I know the 600k sound tempting but it's not like it doesn't have any strings attached. Getting paid, let's say 200k USD in Canada, might get you closer to owning your home than the 600k in SF

Gosh if you just save that salary for 5 years in the US you wont need to work for life.

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google has been decentralized for a long time. Seattle, NYC, Zurich, and London are all big offices that are at least comparable to Mountain View, not to mention a bunch of other smaller but very serious offices. Facebook, Google, and Apple all have large or rapidly growing presences in Seattle. It does the real estate market and traffic no good, but it is what it is.

> Seattle, NYC, Zurich, and London are all big offices that are at least comparable to Mountain View No they aren't, Mountain View much bigger than all of those combined.

Not sure why you're being downvoted. I've been to the seattle office. Its a few buildings. The mtn view office is dozens

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#144
post #129
post #107

As a Candian, it seems to me so very pathetically and predictably Canadian to literally herald the surrender of your own industries to foreign takeover. Canada is (often) to tech what Mexico is to cars. Mexican 'assembly' of cars is fine and good, but they don't exactly move up the value chain from there. Canada produces a lot of decent tech people, who will work for 2/3 the wages, unfortunately, this doesn't map to…

This seems shortsighted. Auto assembly workers don’t start car companies. But tech company workers do start companies. If people immigrate to canada instead of the us to work in tech, I would expect there to be more companies founded here eventually. Further, fewer caandians will go to the us if hiring rises. I can only imagine it will have upwards pressure on wages too, which will eventually help create a pool of pe…

I am not against Google hiring in Canada.

I am against the narrative of this as equivalent to, or comparable to the Silicon Valley.

Of course, it is 'good for Toronto' in many ways, there's little doubt.

The Ontario government, during negotiations with Cisco for a juicy corporate subsidy, indicated that salaries are 'very competitive' and that they'd do 'anything to keep it that way'. Literally stating that he wanted to keep us 'poorer' to guarantee the jobs. (Sorry I can't find the reference).

From a certain perspective, it's understandable: Ontario's competitive advantage is 'a lot of decent tech workers with lower pay' so it makes sense to back that, after all, it's what brings the jobs.

But the very thing that provides a nice economic baseline of wealth (compared to most other countries), also severely limits our potential to be competitive in most areas. Basically, a gilded cage.

The problem with Canada's approach to the US and globalism in this manner is that it systematically reduces the ability of Canadian businesses to be competitive at higher levels.

A commenter noted 'that it brings tech jobs and they might go on to make startups' - which is a good point. But this won't likely be the case, paradoxically, the opposite.

Essentially, NAFTA/USMCA makes Canada an economic suburb: nice place, with basic prosperity, but lacking in exceptionalism and the ability to form groups that bring in real profits, excess surpluses, control, power & influence.

It seems like a paradox - shouldn't free trade, migration etc. make Canada more diverse and competitive? But it's not: Since NAFTA and 'globalization' and 'all of these jobs' ... Canada's expenditures on R&D has actually decreased. Have a look [1].

This in particular, is a disaster. Very important to note that public spending on R&D is not that low (i.e. Canada does good research at University level). And it's not so much that Canadian tech companies spend less on R&D' but it's that Canada produces less and less of the companies that naturally spend on R&D i.e. drugs, medical equipment, tech, etc..

Not only that, in the last 30 years, industrial diversity has actually been shrinking! Have a look [2] Canada isn't even in the top group anymore. Not only this, the sophistication of exports has been going down.

So therein lies the paradox: intelligent people keep saying 'these jobs are great, they'll help us move up the ladder', but it's not the case. NAFTA, large scale migration, other artifacts of globalization and Canada's peculiar history have meant that we get to go to a very 'good spot on the ladder' but actually going higher than that gets even harder.

The Canadian economy is increasingly dependent on Natural Resources and Auto Manufacture for export, and internally, it's driven by 'core businesses' like Finance & Insurance (especially mortgages), construction (again housing) and all of the other things that make a civic community work.

Basically, Canada is becoming a 'very well run civic entity' with less and less R&D spending, less economic complexity, less exceptionalism, fewer knowledge-based exports, and ever greater consumption of foreign products and service and it's the natural result of plain vanilla economic liberal policies, applied without really much thought to the special context of the country. Due to Canada's unique history and lack of its own institutional foundations, it means something different for us than say, Sweden. Almost all of Canadian media consumption is American. The vast majority of the products and services we consume are designed and produced elsewhere, usually in the US.

In order to 'get better' I think we might need a new approach, but I don't think that's what Canadians want - I think even popularity, most Canadians just want 'decent jobs, safety, their Toyota and Netflix'. And so a new Google office is perfect for that.

[1] https://policyoptions.irpp.org/magazines/april-2018/will-can...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_economic_...

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> nearly identical culture to the United States. Lol. Maybe a similar culture to some parts of California or Washington, and that is a stretch, but Vancouver is very very different than "the United States". Live in both for a while and all the little difference (the guns, health care, government, police, civil-military relations, the environment, land use, education etc) add up to markedly different approaches to li…

Have you been to Alberta? Vancouver is not representative of canada.

Maybe its Alberta that's not representative of Canada ;)

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#146
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I graduated in 2000 from Computer Engineering (in Canada). A solid fraction of my peers ended up in Silicon Valley. It’s not just for the wages. Silicon Valley just where most of the jobs are and it remains the best place in the world if you’re an engineer.

The grass is always greener, I guess. I’m a software engineer from the US and I’d never move to SV in a million years. There are more things in life than money. There are so many cities here with better quality of life and lower cost of living.

Quality of life is subjective, and there are no cities that offer as much financial and career opportunity to the average senior software developer as SV does right now. Yes, cost of living is high, but you’ll still come out far ahead the average senior software dev living in some midwestern city. There are exceptions / edge cases, but they’re just that.

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#147
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

300 in total comp is not unheard of for senior roles in the SF Bay Area market. 600 is a whole other story short of severe equity appreciation.

I've had offers for 800k.

Where?

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's rather rare, from what I can tell. Esp. in the context of immigration, h1bdata can be useful. Google llc has precisely 1 software engineer certified at a salary above 300k. 250k, more achievable, with very senior status. What really happens though is RSU appreciation. GOOG has more than doubled in the past 4 years. You are awarded X dollars of stock on hire and every annual review period, but that is converted i…

I think the RSUs and bonuses aren’t included in those H1B data reports. Anyone L5 and higher (as well as many L4s) at Google is pulling in at least 300k in total liquid compensation per year.

Correct. I was just using that as a benchmark for base salary, and apparently even that is flawed.

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's rather rare, from what I can tell. Esp. in the context of immigration, h1bdata can be useful. Google llc has precisely 1 software engineer certified at a salary above 300k. 250k, more achievable, with very senior status. What really happens though is RSU appreciation. GOOG has more than doubled in the past 4 years. You are awarded X dollars of stock on hire and every annual review period, but that is converted i…

Just to be clear, that salary is prevailing wage which is usually lower than the actual salary you're getting (does not include RSUs or stock on top of that). In my case the difference was about 30 to 40% lower.

Fascinating, thank you for the clarification.

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> nearly identical culture to the United States. Lol. Maybe a similar culture to some parts of California or Washington, and that is a stretch, but Vancouver is very very different than "the United States". Live in both for a while and all the little difference (the guns, health care, government, police, civil-military relations, the environment, land use, education etc) add up to markedly different approaches to li…

Have you been to Alberta? Vancouver is not representative of canada.

Yes. I have lived/worked in Alberta many years, and am scheduled to go back soon. But i didnt say Canada /= the united states. I said Vancouver /= the United states.
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