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Living without a SIM card

habd.as

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Re: Living without a SIM card

#181

Post by gormandizer »

kaiwen1 wrote: post #172

I've been without a SIM for over a year. Here are a few more tips: - Google Voice gives you a free number that works anywhere and can be used for texting and 2FA. (There are some exceptions.) - Calling with Google Hangouts is free to some countries, cheap in others, and can be configured to show your Google Voice number as the caller. Unfortunately, the call quality cans be pretty bad, definitely worse than, say, Sky…

I'm inclined to argue that ditching a SIM card in favor of Google voice is simply trading one form of "Surveillance Capitalism" for another.

Re: Living without a SIM card

#182

Post by Freak_NL »

makruiten wrote: post #160
tracnar wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most banks use their own card reader which you can use to authorize/sign a payment, I never had to use SMS for this.

And some banks (ING, bunq, but also others) don’t require anything else than just the mobile app, using either a pincode or biometric validation through your mobile OS. That’s way more practical, because you don’t need to have a reader in your pocket in order to do payments.

Except that you are now required to get into an agreement with Apple or Google for use of their app-stores (banks don't offer alternatives to that route).

Bunq is also a troubling development, because it is the first Dutch bank to require the use of their app, offering no alternative authentication methods (like the larger banks do). If they are allowed to do that, then what is stopping the other banks besides good customer service? ING is already notorious for having waited as long as possible before offering an alternative to their app to users of their former outdated numbered one-time code system.

Re: Living without a SIM card

#183

Post by hu3 »

jhabdas wrote: post #170
hu3 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lending the phone to someone who is in need for some other reason is fine. Lending the phone to someone who doesn't want to carry one even knowing they will need it? Not fine. That person has little respect to others if they think they can't be bothered carrying a phone but everyone else should lend theirs when needed. Not to mention modern phones are very personal. Our entire lives is there.

Correction. Your life is there.

Most of us. And it's by choice due to convenience.

Re: Living without a SIM card

#184

Post by rhn_mk1 »

Joeri wrote: post #145
chewz wrote: post #129

I envy the OP. Unfortunately since September 2019 living without SIM card became (practically) illegal in EU. > most online payments above €30 to go through an extra level of verification such as entering a code received via a text message. [2] Most banks unwisely chosen SMS as Strong Customer Authentication providing little choice to customers. https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/payment-services-psd-2-directi... [2] http…

Banks in the US and EU are required to have the identity on file for all bank accounts (ostensibly to combat terrorism), so sharing your phone number with them shouldn’t change the level of privacy. If it is cost people are worried about they can get a prepaid card and never use it except to receive sms. That’s effectively free. Combined with the push to get rid of anonymous accounts and phone numbers there has also…

> sharing your phone number with them shouldn’t change the level of privacy

It's not sharing that is lowering the privacy level, it's having to disclose all the information to the mobile operator, in addition to the hassle of needing an additional contract with a third, unrelated party.

Re: Living without a SIM card

#186

Post by chewz »

ddalex wrote: post #177
chewz wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but situation before September was that I could use my account without SIM card. Now access to my account requires having a SIM card and a phone. Now imagine taking all my six SIM cards on vacation to Thailand just because you may be in need to urgently use one of my multiple bank or brokerage accounts ;-)

So you're complaining of having to use a SIM while you have 6 SIMs?

I am not yet ready to become a hermit. But when I do I would rather live without a phone then without phone and a bank account. :-)

Re: Living without a SIM card

#187

Post by jakobegger »

sfifs wrote: post #97
Vinnl wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really hard to do. I don't live off the grid by any means - there's a million ways to contact me, e.g. text message, calling, Signal messages, emails, etc. However, I don't use Whatsapp in a country where the vast majority of people does. I'm fine with missing things if people don't feel like using any of the methods I have to get in touch with me. However, instead of either not bothering or using one of the…

You're creating extra cognitive load for people. If there's one thing behavioral psychology has reliably taught us (in spite of the repeatability issues on a few findings), it is that our brains are wired to avoid cognitive load as much as possible. The cost of putting cognitive load is many people will choose not to pay it and that cost is instead borne by your partner Would you walk through wet mud if a grass or co…

Another metaphor: if someone decided not to pave their driveway, because they don't want it to get so hot in the summer, would you tell them, hey I'm not going to visit you until you pave your driveway?

Re: Living without a SIM card

#188

Post by Freak_NL »

chewz wrote: post #129

I envy the OP. Unfortunately since September 2019 living without SIM card became (practically) illegal in EU. > most online payments above €30 to go through an extra level of verification such as entering a code received via a text message. [2] Most banks unwisely chosen SMS as Strong Customer Authentication providing little choice to customers. https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/payment-services-psd-2-directi... [2] http…

All but one Dutch bank (newcomer Bunq) offer authentication methods that do not rely on owning a smartphone. Most often this takes the form of a complimentary card reader that uses your debit card as a hardware private key to generate OTP codes.

Most banks do try very hard to push you to use their Android or IOS app though. I agree that it is becoming increasingly hard to exist without either an Android or IOS smartphone.

The Dutch government is mandating the use of a stronger level of authentication to access your personal medical data. Currently, the only system that meets this standard is the government Android or IOS app. An alternative is being considered that allows people to use an NFC-reader on any modern computing platform with a suitable driver's licence or ID-card, but this won't be available to every citizen until 2029 due to the renewal cycle of these government issued cards. But even then I can't escape a certain sense of complacency with the government branch developing these techniques; they really seem to want everyone to either get an Android or IOS smartphone, or authorize a relative or friend to manage your digital affairs on your behalf. This latter option is of course geared towards the elderly and the digitally encumbered.

It was possible to participate digitally as citizen in the age of the personal computer even if you didn't get Windows or Mac OS X, but in the smartphone era this freedom does not seem to exist for much longer.

Re: Living without a SIM card

#189

Post by jhabdas »

gormandizer wrote: post #181
kaiwen1 wrote: post #172

I've been without a SIM for over a year. Here are a few more tips: - Google Voice gives you a free number that works anywhere and can be used for texting and 2FA. (There are some exceptions.) - Calling with Google Hangouts is free to some countries, cheap in others, and can be configured to show your Google Voice number as the caller. Unfortunately, the call quality cans be pretty bad, definitely worse than, say, Sky…

I'm inclined to argue that ditching a SIM card in favor of Google voice is simply trading one form of "Surveillance Capitalism" for another.

The misperception I feel many of us have - myself included - is basic privacy means nondisclosure. I don't personally trust Google, nor do I have a Google account. But if I were to have a Google account I'd rather share my data - whatever it was I chose to share, which should always be opt-in - with Google's nemesis (Huawei?) and let let them pay us to fight over it.
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