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U.S. Government Shuts Down 84,000 Websites, ‘By Mistake’

torrentfreak.com

101–110 of 161 posts

Re: U.S. Government Shuts Down 84,000 Websites, ‘By Mistake’

#101

It begs the question, is anyone currently building an OPEN DNS?

I know of people and groups who are talking about it, the kind of folks who actually do stuff.

The problem is that the single point of failure in this system is the registrar operating in some legal jurisdictions. Registrars do provide a useful service some large percentage of the time.

Re: U.S. Government Shuts Down 84,000 Websites, ‘By Mistake’

#102
post #49
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there are more important things in life (like being accused wrongly of child pornography), I wonder how that effects their Google rankings to suddenly have your entire domain ripped out from underneath you and pointing to a duplicate content site. My educated guess based on experience working with people affected by dissimilar causes but similar appearance to Google: a massive hit to rankings/traffic within abo…

The problem seems to be (for lack of better information) that sites are shut down pre-emptively with no warning. I'm all for prosecuting child pornographers, and shutting down their content as quickly as possible - but that should be possible by a court order against the hosting provider.... or if said provider is unreachable / out of jurisdiction, and has STILL had some reasonable attempt at contact to press charges…

Well that's just the thing - if someone is unambiguously a child pornographer - throw their ass in jail!

WTF are they doing screwing around with DNS registrations in cases where they know that is taking place?

It sure seems to me like some adversarial government entity simply found a knob they can turn to screw with people when they don't actually have the standard of evidence required for a prosecution.

Re: U.S. Government Shuts Down 84,000 Websites, ‘By Mistake’

#103
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just sent an email on this. To Whom it May Concern: The Department of Homeland Security has recently seized around 84,000 domains, replacing their content with a gif image (can be seen at: http://74.81.170.110/ with a backup at http://linuxhomebase.com/IPRC_Seized_2010_11.jpg ). This is part of "Operation: Protect Our Children" (more info at: http://www.dhs.gov/ynews/releases/pr_1297804574965.shtm ) The entire sour…

Funny. But I'd rather they were getting email about and working on not shutting down any more domains.

You never know what is going to get through to these people. Three disabled people with canes and wheelchairs on the steps of a building in Washington DC may mean more in the media than 80000 people who are able to host their own websites.

Re: U.S. Government Shuts Down 84,000 Websites, ‘By Mistake’

#104

Am I right in assuming that even if a domain name is seized, the IP address will still work? If this is true, couldn't there just be a hosted index of all IP's and their associated domain names so that people could get to these sites by referencing this information? Hell, it could even be a browser plugin, so that if you type the domain name in and it happens to have been seized, it will be redirected to the proper I…

Many (most?) web server configurations require a 'Host' header specifying the domain to be accessed (which allows multiple domains to be hosted on a single IP).

So in a lot of cases just typing the IP into your browser won't be enough, but thats pretty easy to work around. The greater difficulty is ascertaining where a domain should point to once it has been seized. One solution is to grab the old records from a DNS cache, but then there is no way to update them should the IP ever change.

Re: U.S. Government Shuts Down 84,000 Websites, ‘By Mistake’

#105
post #92

So does this render DNSSEC effectively moot? It's not much good for authentication if the government can change the authoritative name servers for any .com/.org/.net domain and then sign that change. But perhaps I don't understand how DNSSEC works. It seems unlikely that its designers would ignore that concern. Edit: Or were they only concerned cache poisoning? There's been much talk of using DNSSEC to authenticate w…

My understanding is that DNSSEC neither helps nor hurts in this scenario. It mainly enforces the accuracy of the registration database, which in this case is being modified at the request of DHS.

Re: U.S. Government Shuts Down 84,000 Websites, ‘By Mistake’

#106
post #91
post #16

I have said this before I will have to say this again until we can get a good answer: What the fuck is the government waisting time doing this crap when they have a war on terror to fight? Concentrate on what is necessary for the war effort, dammit.

I assume you're being sarcastic. How about the government concentrate on reducing the massive debt or getting a decent healthcare system setup? Waging war and pointless internet censorship aren't high on my list.

DNS is bad enough, but you really want these people in charge of your healthcare too?

Re: U.S. Government Shuts Down 84,000 Websites, ‘By Mistake’

#107
post #91
post #16

I have said this before I will have to say this again until we can get a good answer: What the fuck is the government waisting time doing this crap when they have a war on terror to fight? Concentrate on what is necessary for the war effort, dammit.

I assume you're being sarcastic. How about the government concentrate on reducing the massive debt or getting a decent healthcare system setup? Waging war and pointless internet censorship aren't high on my list.

I am not as much being sarcastic as I am trying to deny the government the use of the term "the war on terror".

If they worked the war like the US did in WWII, they would become so unpopular that the war would be over in a week.

Re: U.S. Government Shuts Down 84,000 Websites, ‘By Mistake’

#108
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unreasonable search and seizure doesn't exist, take for example the patriot act which was just extended. The constitution and bill of rights is what they teach little kids, no one takes that junk seriously.

The (sunsetting portions of the) PATRIOT Act were not just extended. The bill cleared the House, but hasn't yet gone through the Senate. There's still time to call your Senator and see if he gives a damn.

http://arabnews.com/world/article266832.ece

Re: U.S. Government Shuts Down 84,000 Websites, ‘By Mistake’

#109
post #8

It's amazing that these operations and bills are intentionally wrapped in wording that makes them politically untouchable. I can see why lawmakers wouldn't want to investigate this. Who wants to be the congressman/woman that went against Operation Save our children ?

How about a better question: Why is this allowed in the united states? This is an absofuckingloutely clear violation of the due process in our constitution. Yes save the fucking children, but do it properly. We see the abuses that arise from improper giving of power. I guess people are waiting until basically we live in communist russia where you got to bribe cops to not give you speeding ticket, impound your car, an…

What, specifically, is a violation of due process? According to the story, ICE mistakenly included mooo.com in the domains they were seizing. Since that site functions as a DNS provider, the 84,000 subdomains hanging off it had their names resolved to the IP address with the scary law enforcement warning. That's a bad thing, of course, and I'll come back to that aspect of it - but it's not a violation of due process.

Let's back up a little. There are sites that host child porn or support a traffic in counterfeit goods, and part of ICE's job is to shut that down. Every country has a customs service, and the US is no exception. Art. 1 sec. 8 of the Constitution begins 'The congress shall have power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States [...]' and later in that same section, 'to regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States [...]' A1S8 is also the source of authority to act against counterfeiters (of currency), to define and act against piracy, and various 'Offenses against the law of nations.'

So there's nothing unconstitutional about the existence of an agency such as ICE: Immigration and Customs Enforcement are among the specific enumerated powers granted to Congress, and Congress can in turn delegate those powers to agencies that it creates. This is why some kinds of customs activities can be conducted without reference to the judicial branch - no warrant is necessary for inspection of cargo at the border for collection of customs duties, and the various other enumerated powers in that section combine to give the government fairly wide latitude to poke around in people's baggage and so on too. It should go without saying, but I'll say it anyway, that all nations assert the power to decide what may be imported, whether to protect their domestic agriculture or to prevent the spread of things like child pornography. Of course such power can be abused to support despotism too, but that's an issue of governance, rather than some inherent flaw in the law itself - just as a computer and the software it runs can be used for worthwhile or nefarious purposes.

Now when it comes to seizure of websites, ICE is exercising its power (as delegated) to regulate commerce, both foreign and interstate. For this, they do need to get a warrant. Here's an example of a warrant in template form: http://www.uscourts.gov/uscourts/FormsAndFees/Forms/AO109.pd... I am not sure if this the same warrant that would be used for a domain name seizure (IANAL) but if not then it will be quite similar - the principle is basically the same as impounding a boat or cargo container. Child porn is certainly subject to forfeiture, and if it's being trafficked across state or national borders, then all ICE has to do is show the court the website, the fact of its illegal content, and request the warrant be issued. And that's exactly what they do - there's no fourth amendment violation.

As for due process, that isn't abridged either in this situation. If the warrant was correctly issued, then the court is already satisfied that contraband exists. When it's executed against the listed websites, their domain names are seized and fall into the custody of ICE who has them redirected to their warning page. If one of the domain owners disagrees - say, because he does host porn but had a statement on the website that all performers are over 18 and he has documentary evidence on file - there is an opportunity to argue that in court. The warrant is not the end of the process; the government puts the seized property into evidence and a civil trial is held; if the government wins, then the domains become the legal property of the government.

Often in customs enforcement, counterfeit goods or money are seized but nobody is caught. The trial is still held; if you look at court calendars you'll see entries in federal district court every week for cases with names like 'United States v. $250,000 in cash,' or 'United States v. 100,000 capsules of a controlled substance,' or 'United States v. 5603 counterfeit handbags.' The US attorney describes the issue of the warrant and the seizure, displays the seized material or documentary proof of where it is stored, nobody shows up to contest the government's claim upon it, and the government wins and takes ownership of it (if it's money) or destroys it (if it's drugs or counterfeit stuff). I always like to imagine an actual heap of cash piled up on the defense table with its own lawyer in cases like these, but that doesn't happen :) Anyway, they will do the same thing as regards these seized domains that had child porn, and likely nobody will show up to claim them as their property - because unless they had ironclad proof that it was not child porn and so a legal mistake has resulted, then they'd be arrested for the criminal act of trafficking in such material.

With mooo.com, ICE made a technical mistake - but they made this mistake while they were in the process of executing a legitimate warrant. they have not any point claimed that mooo.com or any of its subdomains were involved in illegal activity. If they did so, then it would be weeks or months before the matter was put to trial. That the mistake was reversed within hours tells you that mooo.com was never listed on the search warrant in the first place. I'd bet money that the mistake actually occurred at a computer console - as the seized domains listed in the warrant had their DNS altered, the operator miscounted and pasted the ICE IP address over the next entry in the list, which happened to be mooo.com. Why? Because I have made that sort of mistake many times, and so has anyone else who uses a computer.

It is not acceptable, but it is understandable - whereas there is no evidence at all for the picture that's being painted of corrupt authoritarians abusing the helpless public. Imagine the scene: a technician sitting at a console, while some uniformed ICE officers clutching a crumpled warrant in their sweaty hands stand behind her, drunk with power. The technician says 'well, all done officers.' 'Wait! Wait! What is that other site, that m-o-o-o dot com?' 'Oh, that's just the next entry in the DNS database, officer - totally unrelated.' 'Well, I'm on a roll - take that one out too.' 'but, officer, that's not-' 'Silence! Obey, unless you wish to live out your life in a federal prison surrounded by the scum of humanity! I can totally do that, you know. Now, zap it!'

Really? You find that more plausible than a simple screwup, of the kind we have all experienced and which was quickly corrected? Come on.

I repeat, it should not have happened. ICE has a responsibility to use its enforcement powers carefully and accurately, and failed to do so here. Because mooo.com happened to be a DNS business, ICE's mistake did not just affect one site but mooo.com's 84,000 customers as well. And their mistake didn't simply result in those sites being inaccessible for a few hours - they resulted in those sites (and by implication, their owners and operators) being publicly identified as traffickers in child pornography.

That is a very serious charge, easily enough to wreck a person's reputation or even put their life in danger. When the government says such a thing about a person, even as a mistake which is quickly corrected, many people think no more but accord that accusation the same weight as a criminal conviction. With so many people affected, it's probable that at least a few of them have already been fired from their jobs, or received a visit from their local child protection services, or had their spouse file divorce papers. All those results would be radical overreactions to the sight of ICE's web page, but an official government seal and the words 'child porn' will be enough to provoke that in some viewers - it's literally something that people do not like to think about, and so people do not bother to question the immediate emotional response they feel. 10 years ago in the UK, a bunch of uneducated vigilantes ran a doctor out of her home - they misunderstood her job title of 'paediatrician' on her clinic door to mean 'paedophile,' assumed she was a sex offender, and vandalized her house. Imagine how much more damning an official government warning of actual crime must look to anyone unfamiliar with the DNS or the legal system. You'd be better off being accused of murder than a sex crime; even if you were falsely convicted, you would be able to survive in prison while you appealed. Convicted child abusers usually have to be isolated for their own safety inside prison, and are marked for life outside.

ICE's carelessness seems seriously negligent, and since so many people were affected a class action lawsuit against the agency seems very probable. Suing the government is more complex than suing a private party because the government has immunity from some kinds of liability, so I do not know what technical path the lawsuit might take. But for the government to slap a 'child porn warning' on 84,000 or more people at once, even if it was 'only for a few hours, and only on the internet,' is about as bad a screwup as you can make. With 1, 5, or 10 people it might be feasible for ICE to write some humble letters of apology and offer a settlement to mitigate their trouble, but with tens of thousands a trial is the only efficient solution.

But this was not a failure of due process - it's just another example of internet's multiplier effect. In this case, technology allowed a technical error to affect 84,000 websites at once. The problem here is not the law, but the fragility of the domain name system.

Re: U.S. Government Shuts Down 84,000 Websites, ‘By Mistake’

#110
post #59
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should just stop giving them names to avoid this sort of emotional attachment.

Even in the absence of an official title a bill will be given an equally glittering nickname by the opposition.

Then all bills should be given memorable but neutral official nicknames, generated semi-randomly. This bill could be called the "Eight-headed Platypus Act", for example. The name has nothing to do with the bill itself, but hopefully it will fill the name niche well enough to crowd out less entertaining competitors.
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