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Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

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Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#41

Post by thinkloop »

thinkingkong wrote: post #23
lucidone wrote: post #2

The cheap labour pool as a consequence of the weak Canadian dollar certainly helps, alongside having identical time zones and nearly identical culture to the United States. Lots of Canadian consultancies butter their bread with USD.

For way too long Canada has had this weird artificial market capture problem. The easier it is for us to break down those fake barriers, the better it is for everyone. Salaries are about to go up way more for the average employee. Simultaneously, any companies that were making money on labor price arbitrage are about to have a real tough time; Good riddance.

Which barriers?

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#42

Post by ttul »

thinkingkong wrote: post #23
lucidone wrote: post #2

The cheap labour pool as a consequence of the weak Canadian dollar certainly helps, alongside having identical time zones and nearly identical culture to the United States. Lots of Canadian consultancies butter their bread with USD.

For way too long Canada has had this weird artificial market capture problem. The easier it is for us to break down those fake barriers, the better it is for everyone. Salaries are about to go up way more for the average employee. Simultaneously, any companies that were making money on labor price arbitrage are about to have a real tough time; Good riddance.

If you get into a senior role at one of the big tech firms, pay matches the valley. For lesser roles, Canada is cheaper, but the gap is closing rapidly as talent runs dry.

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#43

Post by prlambert »

frandroid wrote: post #28
prlambert wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there still would be: weather. There's literally no place in Canada that doesn't have a generally unpleasant outdoor experience for at least half the year. I say that as a proud Canadian. It's honestly the main thing holding my family from moving back. My wife is from Vancouver and hates snow. I'm from Calgary and can't take rain (I did 3 winters straight in Vancouver promising myself to never do another until I…

Toronto has none of Vancouver's rain and almost none of Calgary's snow. I wear running shoes for all save maybe 3 or 4 weeks of winter. -15 is considered a deep freeze and happens about 3 times per winter. What are you waiting for?

My wife is a UofT grad, so spent 4 years in Toronto. That's where her snow feelings come from – she still tells stories of marching to class in -20C and snow. It may not be Calgary, but it's not California either. Maybe we're wimps, but such is the situation we find ourselves in!

Maybe we'll be back some day. Toronto is the most likely.

On topic for the parent – we're both Googlers but right now Google has no tech employees in Toronto proper (it's all sales and marketing). Waterloo is the only product/eng office and that's a tough commute. I'm not sure if that is changing with this announcement.

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#45

Post by ttul »

ajayyy wrote: post #14
adventured wrote: post #8

I often see people framing the US & Canada primarily as a competition in tech. The exact opposite is largely the case. The US benefits enormously from having a wealthy, vibrant Canada, including in its tech sector. We're permanent allies, liberal democracies and share a very large border as well as $600 billion in goods trade. The ability for technology, labor, products, services and capital to freely flow back and f…

Most people in this field are leaving to the US. It's surprising how many. See https://s3.amazonaws.com/chartprod/Lb7EHT9ksyZyjHqo5/thumbna... . I am in a Canadian software engineering program right now, and it is a goal of many people here. Source: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/technology/article-...

I graduated in 2000 from Computer Engineering (in Canada). A solid fraction of my peers ended up in Silicon Valley. It’s not just for the wages. Silicon Valley just where most of the jobs are and it remains the best place in the world if you’re an engineer.

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#46

Post by 52-6F-62 »

wolco wrote: post #34
starky wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure you could add other cities, but the result of the graph is the same for Canadians. We are getting absolutely hosed on salary considering that nearly everything (minus housing) in Canada is pegged to the US dollar. It makes it really hard to attract talent when someone looking for a job could move 4 hours south and make 50-100% more money to have more purchasing power. Other countries being similar to our level d…

Add in the 50% taxes it really makes things very expensive.

We don’t pay 50% in tax... Even at the higher income scales

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#47

Post by buzzkillington »

ttul wrote: post #42
thinkingkong wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For way too long Canada has had this weird artificial market capture problem. The easier it is for us to break down those fake barriers, the better it is for everyone. Salaries are about to go up way more for the average employee. Simultaneously, any companies that were making money on labor price arbitrage are about to have a real tough time; Good riddance.

If you get into a senior role at one of the big tech firms, pay matches the valley. For lesser roles, Canada is cheaper, but the gap is closing rapidly as talent runs dry.

Senior roles in SF/NY pay >600k in total comp.

I was flat out told there are no such jobs in Canada two years back. Has that changed?

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#48

Post by smnrchrds »

starky wrote: post #29
smnrchrds wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an aside, I passionately hate that graph. It implies that Canadian tech salaries are abnormally low. I wish it was either showing just the US, or included more countries than just US and Canada. Had they included London, Sydney, Berlin, Amsterdam, etc. in the graph, it would have showed that Canadian salaries are in line with and towards the higher end of world salaries except US, and that US salaries are a huge o…

Sure you could add other cities, but the result of the graph is the same for Canadians. We are getting absolutely hosed on salary considering that nearly everything (minus housing) in Canada is pegged to the US dollar. It makes it really hard to attract talent when someone looking for a job could move 4 hours south and make 50-100% more money to have more purchasing power. Other countries being similar to our level d…

> nearly everything (minus housing) in Canada is pegged to the US dollar

This is another persistent myth I wish would die. For example, between 1998 and 2018 (a recent 20 year period for which data is readily available), USD/CAD exchange rate has been as favourable as 0.989 CAD per USD and as unfavourable as 1.570 CAD per USD [1], approximately a 59% difference between the highest and the lowest.

During the same period, purchasing power parity has only fluctuated between 1.185 and 1.248 CAD per USD [2], only a 5% difference between the highest and the lowest.

Contrary to the popular online belief, Canadian currency is not a proxy that is only good for exchanging for USD to buy good and services. It is an independent and strong currency on its own.

[1] https://data.oecd.org/conversion/exchange-rates.htm

[2] https://data.oecd.org/conversion/purchasing-power-parities-p...

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#49

Post by halflings »

buzzkillington wrote: post #47
ttul wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you get into a senior role at one of the big tech firms, pay matches the valley. For lesser roles, Canada is cheaper, but the gap is closing rapidly as talent runs dry.

Senior roles in SF/NY pay >600k in total comp. I was flat out told there are no such jobs in Canada two years back. Has that changed?

What do you mean by "senior roles"? Something like a "Senior Software Engineer"? (or more like a Senior Staff SWE / director)

Can guarantee Senior Software Engineers don't make >600K in SF.

Re: Google's expansion plans show why Canada's tech boom is here to stay

#50

Post by thinkloop »

GhostVII wrote: post #35
jonathankoren wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also with easier immigration, Canada’s talent pool will only get better. Already the US is losing people to Canada due to overly restrictive immigration laws. I’ve even heard immigration offices offering to help with Canadian immigration on the radio in the SF Bay https://www.csmonitor.com/EqualEd/2019/0304/Go-north-young-g... https://movnorth.com/

I think Canada is losing far more people to the US than the other way around, at least at the higher end of the market. Canadian salaries just aren't competitive at that level.

The US is the NBA, the stars definitely do go there. A pretty good life strategy is to work in the states from 30-45 while you're young and healthy, then come back to Canada for peace and safety to raise your family. I've seen a few people do that. I'm not sure it ends up being that bad for Canada. On the one hand they lose stars during their productive years, on the other hand they come back during their spending years with more money/knowledge/sophistication than they would have had.
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