Live data from Hacker News

McDonald's app bug let people order for free in France

twitter.com

41–50 of 90 posts

Re: McDonald's app bug let people order for free in France

#41
post #36

It might be a stunt, but stuff like that happens. Many years ago I used to work for a large European company that ran a booking system for several hundreds of airlines. The system was used as a back-end by more than one famous online booking site. Currency rates were updated automatically. Once, on a new year's eve, at midnight, a glitch slipped into the Canadian dollar conversion rate, setting 1 CAD to 0 EUR. All of…

I always wonder why systems like this so rarely do even basic plausibility checks before data is updated.

Re: McDonald's app bug let people order for free in France

#42
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Detected failures should bounce it to the cashier to ring it up Assuming a minor deviation from the real order cost that ends up being more expensive than swallowing the difference and continuing with the order, and it also increases the number of abandoned orders at peak times. Either way you’re paying a dollar to save a cent. Because you don’t know what the true value should be (else you have no bug) it’s very ha…

Using sanity checks in software is normal practice, especially in software that calculates critical things. It works. > I’d argue I'm sure if you put some effort into thinking about how to make it work, you'll be successful.

> Using sanity checks in software is normal practice, especially in software that calculates critical things. It works.

Literally the whole point, that I've repeated to you 3 times now, is that a single cent is not critical if it means losing the entire order.

This isn't a rockets trajectory or a an MRI scanner, it's a glorified tablet selling high-volume impulse food at a good markup, so stop pretending as if the context doesn't matter when discussing things.

Re: McDonald's app bug let people order for free in France

#43
post #17

It's always interesting to me that so many people seem to completely lose all compunction about stealing once technology is involved. If they were ordering from a cashier at McDonald's and the cashier got distracted for a minute and somehow forgot to charge them before finishing the order, most of the people that abuse a bug like this would tell them about the mistake. I've been in similar situations plenty of times,…

Something that harms a cashier (a worker) is harmful to a worker, which is for most intents and purposes "human."

"Robots are stealing our Goddamned jobs!" is a popular sentiment around the globe. Who is using these robots to replace jobs that should belong to people? Corporations. Corporations are not people, as much as some sorts seem to believe they are.

Taking advantage of a corporation's mistake hurts billionaires and millionaires (this includes McDonald's franchisees, as the corporation doesn't allow just anyone to become one, costs are high), who aren't really people in the conventional sense of the word.

These corporations, billionaires, millionaires and so forth are the ones who are stealing from the people; taking advantage of their errors for something like this is good. McDonald's spends millions a year on lobbying to harm the common good; $5 or $10 or even $1,000,000 from them will mean nothing to them, but will go a long way for the people taking it.

Taking advantage of McDonald's Corporation errors is morally no different than shoplifting from Wal*Mart, which similarly spends millions lobbying and harming the common good, the only difference is that the former presents no risk to the person doing it.

In an era where "No one should be a billionaire!" is a popular political viewpoint, and billionaires have effectively stolen the common person's political agency through lobbying, it seems reasonable that people won't see any harm in taking stuff from them, especially small amounts that they won't miss, like this.

I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment, but it's definitely reasonable and understandable to see why people don't care about taking from people who, from their perspective, didn't earn it in the first place, and won't notice that it's gone.

Re: McDonald's app bug let people order for free in France

#45
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if McDonald's food is that expensive. I would expect that most of the costs are the employees, the building, and the equipment.

Well, their employees had to do all the work to make that food without the franchise getting revenue for it, but the employees were presumably still paid

But the people were already there, it only happened over the course of a single day; it's not like they paid the people more because they were busier or making more orders.

Re: McDonald's app bug let people order for free in France

#46
post #41
post #36

It might be a stunt, but stuff like that happens. Many years ago I used to work for a large European company that ran a booking system for several hundreds of airlines. The system was used as a back-end by more than one famous online booking site. Currency rates were updated automatically. Once, on a new year's eve, at midnight, a glitch slipped into the Canadian dollar conversion rate, setting 1 CAD to 0 EUR. All of…

I always wonder why systems like this so rarely do even basic plausibility checks before data is updated.

IKR

Once my brother wired 10M EUR from Austria instead of 10M HUF. The exchange rate is above 1:300. Needless to say, he didn't have 10M EUR on that account. Like, ever. Not even close. I still have no idea why the bank let him wire more money than he had especially on this magnitude. They reverted it but we needed to cover the spread which caused an almost 10k eur loss. That hurt.

I have once accidentally copied my one time password into my ebank for payment (I was trying to copypaste the amount from somewhere else, it didn't take, that happens often with PDF and then the clipboard contained the previous copy) and it would've let me do it if I don't stop it at the confirm screen. It's mind boggling.

Re: McDonald's app bug let people order for free in France

#47
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using sanity checks in software is normal practice, especially in software that calculates critical things. It works. > I’d argue I'm sure if you put some effort into thinking about how to make it work, you'll be successful.

> Using sanity checks in software is normal practice, especially in software that calculates critical things. It works. Literally the whole point, that I've repeated to you 3 times now, is that a single cent is not critical if it means losing the entire order. This isn't a rockets trajectory or a an MRI scanner, it's a glorified tablet selling high-volume impulse food at a good markup, so stop pretending as if the co…

> that I've repeated to you 3 times now

I explained how to deal with that.

BTW, crooks have stolen millions of dollars by adjusting software to shave off a penny here and there. The idea that McDonalds can afford to be unaware of a missing penny in a transaction, when they have billions of those transactions, is wrong.

In accounting software, it's critical to be accurate to the penny. Having the POS software be off by a penny calls into question the entire reliability of the software. Especially when normal accounting controls are not followed and the penny error is not detected.

I once read a story where a prospective engineering hire was given a plant tour at Ford. He noticed an inefficiency that was costing Ford 5 cents per car. He was promptly hired.

Edit:

> rockets trajectory or a an MRI scanner

I've heard the same arguments from people who vigorously insist that it's correct for rockets and scanners for the software to ignore bugs and soldier on. I hope the people who do write that software do not agree with those arguments. I suggest that re-evaluating this merits an investment of your time.

Re: McDonald's app bug let people order for free in France

#48
post #17

It's always interesting to me that so many people seem to completely lose all compunction about stealing once technology is involved. If they were ordering from a cashier at McDonald's and the cashier got distracted for a minute and somehow forgot to charge them before finishing the order, most of the people that abuse a bug like this would tell them about the mistake. I've been in similar situations plenty of times,…

It's pretty simple at face value. You're interacting with a person instead of a screen, that's basically like a game where you try to "win" by getting the best price for all the stuff you're ordering. Of course you might know it's wrong but you don't see anyone (and can likely assume) no one directly involved will take the fall for it. Compared to a cashier that gives away something for free, they might get yelled at or lose their job. It's empathy, it's human, and it makes a lot of sense.

Re: McDonald's app bug let people order for free in France

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could it have been obvious the price was 10 times higher than you paid? If yes, then it's stealing. If no, then no.

I see this as a negotiation between man and machine. The machine in this case was bad at negotiating.

These sorts of "cutesy" arguments don't hold up in a court of law.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/21534526/ns/technology_and_science...

Re: McDonald's app bug let people order for free in France

#50
post #17

It's always interesting to me that so many people seem to completely lose all compunction about stealing once technology is involved. If they were ordering from a cashier at McDonald's and the cashier got distracted for a minute and somehow forgot to charge them before finishing the order, most of the people that abuse a bug like this would tell them about the mistake. I've been in similar situations plenty of times,…

When there's a "system", everyone's very aware that an error against them will be treated inhumanly and be very time consuming to correct. It's a bit like a prisoner's dilemma where you expect the other side to defect.

Also, Amazon have more wealth than like half the population put together. A few lenses aren't going to put a dent in that. The only case I can think of that did was the "Hoover free flights" fiasco, and that wasn't even an error.

Post reply on HN