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Windows 10 to offer Paint and WordPad as optional features

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Re: Windows 10 to offer Paint and WordPad as optional features

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> WIN+R, mspaint, ENTER--every time. i prefer https://www.getpaint.net/

I would prefer https://www.getpaint.net , if that web site weren't littered with misleading ad units designed to trick people who want to download the Paint.NET software into actually downloading adware. As it stands, I can't in good conscience tell people to go to that site. Even if the actual Paint.NET software is good, the risk is just too high they'll end up installing something nasty.

Send them to Ninite?

Re: Windows 10 to offer Paint and WordPad as optional features

#52
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I checked, I couldn't run any X apps under WSL.

As ac said - use something like X410 for xserver in windows and in wsl set: export DISPLAY=:0 for other approaches see: https://askubuntu.com/questions/993225/whats-the-easiest-way...

Thanks!

I'll be very happy the day I can

  sudo apt install lyx gnuplot octave octave-forge darktable gimp fluxbox
on a windows box, and have my workplace spring to life, all dependencies handled.

I'm very glad to hear that wsl has a viable display export -- the next time I have occasion to use a Windows 10 box, I'll give it a try.

Re: Windows 10 to offer Paint and WordPad as optional features

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> WIN+R, mspaint, ENTER--every time. i prefer https://www.getpaint.net/

I would prefer https://www.getpaint.net , if that web site weren't littered with misleading ad units designed to trick people who want to download the Paint.NET software into actually downloading adware. As it stands, I can't in good conscience tell people to go to that site. Even if the actual Paint.NET software is good, the risk is just too high they'll end up installing something nasty.

yeah, it's unfortunate, but they need to make money somehow. at least they're not bundling anything with the install (AFAIK)

https://www.dotpdn.com/downloads/pdn.html

Re: Windows 10 to offer Paint and WordPad as optional features

#55

They're really pushing the Paint3D app, the Mixed Reality Viewer and the Photos app to take over Paint's roles and beyond. As for Wordpad they probably will deprecate and disable to gently nudge people to online Office 365 cloud subscriptions. Another reason I suppose is to decouple these apps from Windows system so their replacements can be updated through the store instead of waiting for OS feature updates.

Paint3D is an atrocious, poorly-designed app. Tools are all over the place, familiar shortcuts have disappeared, and the UI looks like it was designed for the Windows 8 vision of Windows-on-a-tablet. No thanks. WIN+R, mspaint, ENTER--every time.

WIN+R, pbrush, ENTER => save yourself one keystroke :)

Re: Windows 10 to offer Paint and WordPad as optional features

#56
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notepad, calculator,... Definitely. I'm almost surprised they removed paint to optional, although WordPad makes a lot of sense.

I use wordpad to open text files with LF line breaks -- notepad chokes on the missing CR.

that was fixed in windows 10, so you don't need to use wordpad and risk random characters getting inserted into your text files because you inadvertently used a formatting feature.

Re: Windows 10 to offer Paint and WordPad as optional features

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about having a minimal install. It merely removes links to paint and Wordpad. The article is inaccurate. Removing these will actually remove files from the system and not just links. I suspect it's done because they consider Paint and Wordpad to be deprecated and want to help discourage use. This is definitely not the reason.

> Removing these will actually remove files from the system and not just links. It removes a copy. There's still another one in the installation archive. If you have your system set to CompactOS mode, which you would presumably do if you were worried about space, I think it really would just be removing a link. > This is definitely not the reason. Definitely? Even though they completely removed mspaint.exe from some…

It removes a copy. There's still another one in the installation archive. If you have your system set to CompactOS mode, which you would presumably do if you were worried about space, I think it really would just be removing a link.

This is not true in this case and is probably due to some interpretation of how packages are installed in Desktop editions of Windows.

In Desktop editions of Windows, many OS files (not all) are installed into the Windows "side-by-side" (aka %WINDIR%\WinSxS) grouped by component. What happens is that when the package containing the component(s) is "staged" (prepared for installation), the files are placed there. When the package transitions to an installed state, the files from the WinSxS are "projected" into the main part of the filesystem using hardlinks.

To further elucidate, Windows has two types of "optional features":

1. "Legacy" optional features

These are the ones that work like you describe. They are sometimes informally referred to as "OCs" (optional components). Packages declare a portion of their payload as a "selectable update" that is then exposed by the legacy "Turn Windows features on or off" control panel and by dism [0]. When one of these legacy features is enabled/disabled the selectable updates may cause registry state to change, but largely just "unproject" or "project" the hardlinks I mentioned earlier.

2. Features On Demand

These are the "modern" Windows Optional Features. They are sometimes informally referred to as "FODs" (features on demand). Unlike the legacy features, one or more packages are associated with a feature via what is called a "capability" identifier. When a package declares this identifier, Windows exposes this as a "Feature On Demand" via the "Manage optional features" settings panel and via dism [1].

Unlike "Legacy" optional features, when a FOD is installed or uninstalled, it actually installs or removes all of the packages for that feature and the associated payload, etc.

Where the confusion likely comes is from the fact that installs are still done the same way I described earlier. That is, files are placed in the WinSxS and then projected as hardlinks into the filesystem.

Definitely? Even though they completely removed mspaint.exe from some of the preview builds a while back?

Choices of which product features are supported are orthogonal to the Features On Demand platform technology. With that in mind, consider that unused features don't need to be downloaded, reduce OS footprint, reduce update downtime, and reduce bandwidth usage during updates all of which can benefit both the customer and the supplier.

I have no insight into product feature choices, but I would encourage you to take a broader view of platform technology choices and consider that they may be orthogonal.

[0] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufactur... [1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufactur...

Re: Windows 10 to offer Paint and WordPad as optional features

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use rufus to burn a linux iso and install over the top. No more windows. Really need something? Run it in wine. Break away from Microsofts abusive ecosystem.

Visual Studio doesn't run in Wine as far as I know.

VSCode is cross platform, what does Visual Studio do that it can't?

Re: Windows 10 to offer Paint and WordPad as optional features

#59

They're really pushing the Paint3D app, the Mixed Reality Viewer and the Photos app to take over Paint's roles and beyond. As for Wordpad they probably will deprecate and disable to gently nudge people to online Office 365 cloud subscriptions. Another reason I suppose is to decouple these apps from Windows system so their replacements can be updated through the store instead of waiting for OS feature updates.

Paint3D is an atrocious, poorly-designed app. Tools are all over the place, familiar shortcuts have disappeared, and the UI looks like it was designed for the Windows 8 vision of Windows-on-a-tablet. No thanks. WIN+R, mspaint, ENTER--every time.

Paint.NET is a worthy replacement to MSPaint, and I'm glad it exists. It IMO manage to balance simplicity and features that is quite accessible to an average user.

Re: Windows 10 to offer Paint and WordPad as optional features

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would prefer https://www.getpaint.net , if that web site weren't littered with misleading ad units designed to trick people who want to download the Paint.NET software into actually downloading adware. As it stands, I can't in good conscience tell people to go to that site. Even if the actual Paint.NET software is good, the risk is just too high they'll end up installing something nasty.

yeah, it's unfortunate, but they need to make money somehow. at least they're not bundling anything with the install (AFAIK) https://www.dotpdn.com/downloads/pdn.html

Or you can buy it on the MS Store to contribute.
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