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Manufacturing plant fire threatens worldwide vinyl record supply

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Re: Manufacturing plant fire threatens worldwide vinyl record supply

#91

Post by sonthonax »

stereolambda wrote: post #88

Don't forget that some "obscure" music is marginally cheaper/easier to obtain on vinyl. For example space age pop, which is one of things in the sweet spot for collecting (for pleasure, not for money): used to be popular and mass-manufactured, now almost no one cares, so the market has a lot of this relatively cheap. Living in the former communist country, I regret not having easy access to heaps of Western vinyls in…

I think a lot of millennials who formed their music taste in the age of Napster, LimeWire, Torrents and Spotify seem to think the internet has everything (given the illusion of limitless choice).

This is of course not the case and there's so much music that's only realistically available on vinyl.

Re: Manufacturing plant fire threatens worldwide vinyl record supply

#92

Post by coffeefirst »

eganist wrote: post #2

I haven't found an objective explanation for why some populations prefer vinyl analog over any digital renditions of a sound. Can anyone share some insight? (I've listened to both, and the description of vinyl or even analog sound as being generally "warmer" never resonated with me.)

I'll try. I'm a recent convert.

1. I spend so much time with computers and virtual things, that there's something about the physicality of the thing that's incredibly refreshing.

This is the same reason people like fountain pens and watches. Do you need a watch when you always have your phone on you? Not really, but watches are cool.

2. Sound, which is tricky because it doesn't sound better. Vinyl has different strengths than digital music. When its done well, the artists will master the music to play to those strengths. There are albums I have both mp3 and vinyl versions of that are distinctly different versions of the same idea.

Re: Manufacturing plant fire threatens worldwide vinyl record supply

#93

Post by at_a_remove »

fireattack wrote: post #12
eganist wrote: post #2

I haven't found an objective explanation for why some populations prefer vinyl analog over any digital renditions of a sound. Can anyone share some insight? (I've listened to both, and the description of vinyl or even analog sound as being generally "warmer" never resonated with me.)

Personally, as soon as people don't claim it sounds "better" I have no issue with it. (The caveat, of course, is that some recordings only release properly mastered version on vinyl. Nothing stops the recording company to release the same version on digital media, they just don't.)

This is a pet peeve of mine, releases that happen only on vinyl (and, with a moment of perversity, cassette). Yes, let's use a medium that degrades with each use.

I have resorted to, for those situations where I cannot plead the masters out of the sound engineers, buying the still sealed, unplayed record where available so that it can be converted to digital while it is still pristine.

Re: Manufacturing plant fire threatens worldwide vinyl record supply

#94

Post by atoav »

simias wrote: post #83
eganist wrote: post #2

I haven't found an objective explanation for why some populations prefer vinyl analog over any digital renditions of a sound. Can anyone share some insight? (I've listened to both, and the description of vinyl or even analog sound as being generally "warmer" never resonated with me.)

I understand that, there's a certain ritual to playing a vinyl that will appeal to some. Objectively from a sound quality perspective it's the same thing as plopping a CD or playing a (correctly compressed) file from your computer but the ritual and potentially the nostalgia make it significant. I feel the same way with videogames: plopping a disc in my old PlayStation feels "better" than playing on an emulator. You…

I think it is more than that. The soundwaves you hear are directly there on the record. Get a magnifying glas and you can even see them.

This direct connection (and the big covers) is what is part of the appeal.

Re: Manufacturing plant fire threatens worldwide vinyl record supply

#95

Post by ghaff »

blacklion wrote: post #85
bonestamp2 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do both. Digital music is way more convenient to initiate, continue, store and take with you -- so I use that the most. But, it's almost too convenient in some cases to the point where I often don't appreciate what is really happening and the music just becomes background noise. Although it's obviously possible, I rarely use digital music to sit and listen to an entire album anymore. On the other hand, when I liste…

I have never used "AI Curated playlists", and I'm listening to music only by full albums (no shuffles, no random, nothing), because one unit of my favorite music is album, not track (still). But I don't understand vynil records at all. It is worse than even CD, not to mention high-res downloadable albums. Dynamic range is worse, noise floor is worse, stereo separation is worse. I'm old enough to listen A LOT of LP re…

I use playlists too much probably. One of my semi-resolutions is to get back to listening to albums more.

But, as with photographic film, while I have a certain nostalgia for vinyl records, I don't really miss the scratches and the warping and need to flip the record or put a new one on every 20 minutes or so.

Re: Manufacturing plant fire threatens worldwide vinyl record supply

#96

Post by stereolambda »

sonthonax wrote: post #91
stereolambda wrote: post #88

Don't forget that some "obscure" music is marginally cheaper/easier to obtain on vinyl. For example space age pop, which is one of things in the sweet spot for collecting (for pleasure, not for money): used to be popular and mass-manufactured, now almost no one cares, so the market has a lot of this relatively cheap. Living in the former communist country, I regret not having easy access to heaps of Western vinyls in…

I think a lot of millennials who formed their music taste in the age of Napster, LimeWire, Torrents and Spotify seem to think the internet has everything (given the illusion of limitless choice). This is of course not the case and there's so much music that's only realistically available on vinyl.

Yes, non-streamable music has a specific flavor to it nowadays. But I appreciate that YouTube is now putting a lot of old obscure stuff on "Topic" channels en masse, good quality as well. But it's probably still limited to whatever is owned by big labels.

Re: Manufacturing plant fire threatens worldwide vinyl record supply

#97

Post by saalweachter »

sitharus wrote: post #7
eganist wrote: post #2

I haven't found an objective explanation for why some populations prefer vinyl analog over any digital renditions of a sound. Can anyone share some insight? (I've listened to both, and the description of vinyl or even analog sound as being generally "warmer" never resonated with me.)

For me, it's not about the sound. A clean record played with a quality stylus sounds about the same as a digital recording. However, you get a physical copy with full-size artwork, and it's a chance to support the artist directly.

I'm personally fascinated by the album format.

I own a jillion digital songs that I listen to in batches, shuffling them, creating playlists. Sometimes I'll listen to literally every song I own on shuffle; sometimes I'll listen to one song on loop for hours.

A good album presents a playlist arrangement by the artist. I could just listen to the digital copies in order, but I'm more likely to jump around and skip songs when given the option. The constraints of the vinyl format makes it more likely I'll listen the whole way through, at most selecting whether to listen to both A and B sides.

Unsurprisingly, I only own a few records, of artists and albums I particularly like. Otherwise I just pick and choose individual songs from a digital marketplace.

Re: Manufacturing plant fire threatens worldwide vinyl record supply

#98

Post by sterwill »

numpad0 wrote: post #79
dukoid wrote: post #68

I never understood the hype for vinyl records -- they aren't that much better than CDs when compared to shellac...

CD is way overrated. Terrible, even. Like, if you compare film to digital photography, but film was represented by ISO160 monochromatic Kodak, and all the digital photographic technology was represented by a 640x480 prototype camera from 2001, instead of a RED or even a yesteryear phone, then it’ll be immediately obvious that analog far outperforms digital full stop. That’s how vinyl remains “superior”. CD is terribl…

This doesn't make any sense. You haven't explained how CD is "terrible"; you just made some comparison to an obsolete digital camera. You put the CD in, press play, and a nearly perfect representation of the source signal with enormous dynamic range and clarity comes out of your DAC. How is this like a 20 year-old digital camera?

Re: Manufacturing plant fire threatens worldwide vinyl record supply

#99

Post by wheels »

eganist wrote: post #2

I haven't found an objective explanation for why some populations prefer vinyl analog over any digital renditions of a sound. Can anyone share some insight? (I've listened to both, and the description of vinyl or even analog sound as being generally "warmer" never resonated with me.)

I buy both. For the most part, it's nostalgia, not sound quality. In fact, if sound quality is the goal, CDs or losslessly compressed audio files are preferable. Virtually everything is mixed and mastered in digital now, so any notion of the "warmth of analog" is mostly horseshit.

But some of us have a soft spot for physical collections of things. I have around 500 CDs and 200 records (and 1000-ish books). Vinyl is prettier than a CD. They're big, there's a bit of a ritual to putting one one. They're nice to throw on when friends are over. I didn't even grow up with records: I was from the cassette and CD generation. I didn't start acquiring records until I inherited my dad's and started buying techno records.

Some people will spout some post hoc rationalizations about the sound of vinyl, but objectively, they're wrong. It's mostly just that we like collecting the things and that more often than not these days when you buy the vinyl you get a download code for the digital version, so you get the best of both worlds.

Re: Manufacturing plant fire threatens worldwide vinyl record supply

#100

Post by sterwill »

sterwill wrote: post #98
numpad0 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CD is way overrated. Terrible, even. Like, if you compare film to digital photography, but film was represented by ISO160 monochromatic Kodak, and all the digital photographic technology was represented by a 640x480 prototype camera from 2001, instead of a RED or even a yesteryear phone, then it’ll be immediately obvious that analog far outperforms digital full stop. That’s how vinyl remains “superior”. CD is terribl…

This doesn't make any sense. You haven't explained how CD is "terrible"; you just made some comparison to an obsolete digital camera. You put the CD in, press play, and a nearly perfect representation of the source signal with enormous dynamic range and clarity comes out of your DAC. How is this like a 20 year-old digital camera?

The more I think about it, the better metaphor is: CD is the RED 32K camera from 2025 whose product is video indistinguishable from seeing it with your own eyes, but it came out in 1982 and all the theaters can project it.
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