My wife is mainland Chinese, and she has been saying that it a worse than what the government is saying. Also, since Li Wenliang died, well, frankly a lot of people are pissed at the CCP. Anyway, I feel like it’ll be an epidemic ( it already is, I believe ) in China, and be much better controlled outside of China. Unfortunately my wife is also stuck in Chongqing; Taiwan is essentially closing up its borders and we do…
I don’t understand what it is that the Chinese authorities are supposedly misreporting? The mortality rate of 2% is consistent with the number of cases and deaths reported by other countries. Is it that there are a large number of undiagnosed cases? That is kind of a given and is probably also the case in other countries. The timespan between first case and until it gets reported to who and quarantines start is less…
Life and Death in a Wuhan Coronavirus ICU
181–190 of 316 posts
Re: Life and Death in a Wuhan Coronavirus ICU
#182My wife is mainland Chinese, and she has been saying that it a worse than what the government is saying. Also, since Li Wenliang died, well, frankly a lot of people are pissed at the CCP. Anyway, I feel like it’ll be an epidemic ( it already is, I believe ) in China, and be much better controlled outside of China. Unfortunately my wife is also stuck in Chongqing; Taiwan is essentially closing up its borders and we do…
I don’t understand what it is that the Chinese authorities are supposedly misreporting? The mortality rate of 2% is consistent with the number of cases and deaths reported by other countries. Is it that there are a large number of undiagnosed cases? That is kind of a given and is probably also the case in other countries. The timespan between first case and until it gets reported to who and quarantines start is less…
As a new disease, with the first cases possibly being acquired as early as late November 2019, it wasn't until mid to late January 2020 that city and national authorities appeared to start taking the outbreak seriously.
I'm not aware of other novel outbreaks outside of China and how quickly those have attracted notice, though there's the case of the 1976 initial outbreak of Legionaire's Disease, reported within a week of first outbreak (though the disease was both fast-acting and rapidly lethal for many victims). However epidemiologists also realised that there had been previous, unrecognised outbreaks, dating to the 1950s. See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_Philadelphia_Legionnaires...
The case of HIV/AIDS in the US and elsehwere would be a case of a disease with ascribed social and moral assocations, for which early responses were very much delayed, on of several examples of stigma associated with the disease: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_against_people_...
Reponse to the 2012 MERS outbreak appears to have been swift -- in November of 2012: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Middle_East_respiratory_s...
The 2003 SARS epidemic, also emerging in China, also first emerged in November, but was not internationally reported until the following March:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndr...
(The fact that SARS, MERS, and 2019-nCoV all appear to have emerged during November may be significant.)
Point being:
- China are slow to detect, report, and respond to new contagious epidemics. Notably so in the case of SARS, and less so, but still, with 2019-nCoV.
- Other countries, including the US, have had similar failures.
- Early unofficial public disclosure of 2019-nCoV was prosecuted by Chinese authorities, though at what direction is unclear.
- Trust between the people and the government is somewhat frayed.
- There are also numerous actors with incentives to make the most of any missteps of the government, or to inflate distrust.
Several of those groups have legitimate gripes against the Chinese government, and I've seen reports associated with Falun Gong, Hong Kong, and Taiwan specifically. I've not seen any associated with Tibet or Uygher populations. And there are various rabble-rousing actors elsewhere, doomers, and conspiracists (generally of the nutcake variety).
This ... clouds information. Many of the criticisms are legimate, some are not, and sorting fact from fiction (both between and within reports) is challenging. China are in the position where both locked-down and unfettered communications are potentially harmful -- the first for preventing accurate information from being available to both public and government, the latter for allowing agents provacateurs to rumourmonger, exaggerate bad news, and spread active disinforation. This is strong shades of attacks the West has seen over the past several years (within the US, UK, EU, and elsewhere), some of it from China itself.
How China responds will be interesting.
Re: Life and Death in a Wuhan Coronavirus ICU
#183Re: Life and Death in a Wuhan Coronavirus ICU
#184Re: Life and Death in a Wuhan Coronavirus ICU
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
...And we're writing about this on an internet that was developed by privately funded defense researchers and private universities. You can use this internet to get driving directions via privately funded geolocation satellites.
No, the internet originally was funded almost exclusively by public money (US military and CERN being some of the biggest contributors), and there is basically no such thing as "privately funded defense researchers" - almost by definition, defense research is funded by public money, or at least by private investors looking to get their money back by selling to the state. Universities also tend to do research funded b…
Re: Life and Death in a Wuhan Coronavirus ICU
#186I think we are dealing with black swan event. It's new disease, higly contagious and with 200 more deathly rate than flu. Since we don't know much about that disease and how much that virus can mutate being extra cautious is best strategy.
(High-consequence flu strains such as H5N1 can have case fatality rates of as much as 60%. Not all flus are created equal.)
Case mortality rate for 2019-nCoV has been reported from 1% to as high as 6%, with lower values more plausible.
That's a 10x to 120x greater mortality, and again, lower rates appear more likely. The high end isn't great, but is still below 200x.
Key differences are that we have vaccine and curative treatment for influenza. Neither are 100%, but both are effective in many cases.
Re: Life and Death in a Wuhan Coronavirus ICU
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
Correct. Generally in China you buy your way into a hospital bed if it's busy. And "Big Sickness" (the Chinese term for cancer and heart surgery) ruins family finances, similar to the USA.
Jeeze dude. There are millions of Americans who weather cancer and heart surgery just fine without ruining their finances.
Re: Life and Death in a Wuhan Coronavirus ICU
#188My wife is mainland Chinese, and she has been saying that it a worse than what the government is saying. Also, since Li Wenliang died, well, frankly a lot of people are pissed at the CCP. Anyway, I feel like it’ll be an epidemic ( it already is, I believe ) in China, and be much better controlled outside of China. Unfortunately my wife is also stuck in Chongqing; Taiwan is essentially closing up its borders and we do…
I don’t understand what it is that the Chinese authorities are supposedly misreporting? The mortality rate of 2% is consistent with the number of cases and deaths reported by other countries. Is it that there are a large number of undiagnosed cases? That is kind of a given and is probably also the case in other countries. The timespan between first case and until it gets reported to who and quarantines start is less…
And there are also rumors out there saying the lack of medical resources. Sick people couldn't get proper medical treatment and dying at home or somewhere. Because they didn't get diagnosed before they die, so the number won't be added to the official number. Don't know if it's true or how many people are dying there, but sure it's terrifying.
About misreporting, they did do it back in January, mainly because they want to control the panic as they always do, (and probably they didn't know it's gonna be this bad), but it should be much better now (I hope).
Re: Life and Death in a Wuhan Coronavirus ICU
#189My wife is mainland Chinese, and she has been saying that it a worse than what the government is saying. Also, since Li Wenliang died, well, frankly a lot of people are pissed at the CCP. Anyway, I feel like it’ll be an epidemic ( it already is, I believe ) in China, and be much better controlled outside of China. Unfortunately my wife is also stuck in Chongqing; Taiwan is essentially closing up its borders and we do…
I don’t understand what it is that the Chinese authorities are supposedly misreporting? The mortality rate of 2% is consistent with the number of cases and deaths reported by other countries. Is it that there are a large number of undiagnosed cases? That is kind of a given and is probably also the case in other countries. The timespan between first case and until it gets reported to who and quarantines start is less…
Re: Life and Death in a Wuhan Coronavirus ICU
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t understand what it is that the Chinese authorities are supposedly misreporting? The mortality rate of 2% is consistent with the number of cases and deaths reported by other countries. Is it that there are a large number of undiagnosed cases? That is kind of a given and is probably also the case in other countries. The timespan between first case and until it gets reported to who and quarantines start is less…
The main reason now is that the confirmation method of infection is still under debate and improvement. The current method is nucleic acid detection, which only has about 50% accuracy, so obviously a huge number of people out there cannot be diagnosed, and they won't be added to the official number. And there are also rumors out there saying the lack of medical resources. Sick people couldn't get proper medical treat…