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Japan Turns to Coal After Closing Nuclear Power Plants

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Re: Japan Turns to Coal After Closing Nuclear Power Plants

#71

Post by jtolmar »

m4rtink wrote: post #61
neutronman wrote: post #2

Future generations will equate this logic to that of the people who healed all ailments with leeches.

There are aiment where leach treatment is suitable, generaly related to restoring blood flow. So mostly frostbite, transplantation and reconnecting of severed tissue (eq. an accidentally cut off ear, etc.)

There are problems where fossil fuels are suitable, related to how dense and stable they are to store. So mostly emergency power and/or remote areas (eq. power's down in a remote mountain village, etc.)

Re: Japan Turns to Coal After Closing Nuclear Power Plants

#72

Post by FooHentai »

espadrine wrote: post #45
ozborn wrote: post #5

A disaster. I'm opposed to the construction of new nuclear plants (still open to possibility of new fusion plants at some in the future) but from an environmental standpoint it makes far more sense to maintain the existing nuclear plants - at least for now. The biggest drawbacks of nuclear power (expensive and slow plant construction) are off the table with existing plants! Hardening existing plants against possible…

This argument causes some of the problems this argument tries to avoid. > I'm opposed to the construction of new nuclear plants The technology involved in nuclear plants has evolved tremendously, both in terms of efficiency and in terms of safety, but the technology of the new generation is fundamentally different. > The biggest drawbacks of nuclear power (expensive and slow plant construction) are off the table with…

I don't follow what you're saying about 'GEN IV' reactors. AFAIK, that's reactors of a type that won't be online until at least 2030: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_IV_reactor

The primary failure at Fukushima was a sea wall too low for the tsunami that occurred. How is the reactor design relevant?

Also regarding Superphénix, your telling of this seems a bit biased - The rocket attack occurred in 1982 and it was shut down in 1997 by the prime minister due to excessive cost.

As for whether fast breeder reactors are 'still considered next-gen and highly favorable' see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superphénix

"a group of 80 physicists from the Lyon Physics Institute wrote an open letter about the risks of breeder technology, and in February 1975, about 400 scientists signed their name to an expanded letter."

Re: Japan Turns to Coal After Closing Nuclear Power Plants

#73

Post by AcerbicZero »

Japan has been increasing its year over year coal consumption since like, the 70's, and while I'm sure "more coal" isn't a good thing, ~20 Mt a year jumping up to ~21 Mt a year isn't exactly dramatic.

If you happen to take a peek at the coal consumption metrics from around the world, you'll notice a small country a few miles to the west of Japan which currently has the distinct honor of being the only country in the world to measure its annual coal usage in billions of tons instead of millions of tons (although to be fair, India is pretty close to breaking into their first Bt). Thats probably what I'd look into first.

Re: Japan Turns to Coal After Closing Nuclear Power Plants

#74

Post by throaway1990 »

makomk wrote: post #35
throaway1990 wrote: post #3

This is just sad, I thought the regression of civilization described in Foundation by Issac Asimov was far fetched BS. How wrong I was! This is the exact example he uses in his books.

Sort of, but not really. Asimov worried about us losing the knowledge of nuclear power, and whilst there's a little of that what's really lead to its demise is that as we've learnt more about what's needed to build and operate it over the years it's become less and less viable.

> it's become less and less viable.

isn't it because of some unnecessary regulation and some materials technology being behind.

nuclear fission is the second densest form of energy, It is absolutely worthwhile to improve it for the future humanity, IMHO.

I think most countries and national bodies are just giving up on nuclear all together.

Re: Japan Turns to Coal After Closing Nuclear Power Plants

#75

Post by lispm »

fiter wrote: post #70
lispm wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://strom-report.de/strom/ Share of electricity production in Germany in 2019: Coal 19.5% + 9.5% Gas 10.5% 19.8 + 9.5 + 10.5 = 39.8%

Interesting. The graphs on that website do not agree with the ones on Wikipedia. For example, for coal in 2016 Wikipedia says ~220 TWh but Strom says ~135 TWh. EDIT: I see my mistake. I did not add both brown (~135 TWh) and black coal (~100 TWh) together (surprised to see those broken out, but it's a valid difference). In that case, the numbers still do not agree, but at least they are comparable. [0] https://strom-r…

I don't see it. Strom-report says for 2016:

150 TWh Braunkohle + 110 TWh Steinkohle. For electricity production.

> surprised to see those broken out

Braunkohle has domestic production, Steinkohle no longer.

Re: Japan Turns to Coal After Closing Nuclear Power Plants

#76

Post by dangus »

hurricanetc wrote: post #67

Environmentalists just can’t get out of their own way. Solar and wind were never viable alternatives to replace nuclear in Japan. It was always going to be coal. But when good is the enemy of perfect this is what you get. So let’s raise our glasses to the next decade of coal energy in Japan. Congratulations environmentalists, you won! You killed nuclear!

Was it the “environmentalists” who won here?

That’s just a label, and you’re using it to group an unknown mass of people together, assume they have identical views, and criticize them. Let me guess - everything that’s gone wrong in the world is also the fault of “the liberals?”

In reality, Japan had an unfortunate nuclear catastrophe and it scared people, rightfully. The public put pressure on the government to ensure the catastrophe didn’t happen again.

Meltdown scare is the major downside of nuclear outside of waste management. I think a lot of people aware of the science of energy generation consider nuclear a very reliable, green solution compared to the alternatives.

But asking the general public to ignore the big scary elephant in the room is like asking people to stop freaking out about flying on planes (while they have no fear of the objectively less safe alternative of driving).

Re: Japan Turns to Coal After Closing Nuclear Power Plants

#77

Post by p1mrx »

ciconia wrote: post #53

There's another solution to the problem of the environmental cost of energy production: reduce consumption. Is there anyone who would not agree that we, humans, are over-consuming?

Reducing consumption on a meaningful scale is completely impractical, particularly when you include emerging economies, who need to increase their energy consumption in order to attain a reasonable standard of living.

Re: Japan Turns to Coal After Closing Nuclear Power Plants

#78

Post by fiblye »

I have to wonder if this is a deal with China, since it makes Japan less energy independent and the leading political party is known for nonstop corruption scandals and some ties to China. China will likely be a big seller of that coal and profit off this big time, same as they will with the recent bizarre casino legalization plan.

Re: Japan Turns to Coal After Closing Nuclear Power Plants

#79

Post by khuey »

espadrine wrote: post #45
ozborn wrote: post #5

A disaster. I'm opposed to the construction of new nuclear plants (still open to possibility of new fusion plants at some in the future) but from an environmental standpoint it makes far more sense to maintain the existing nuclear plants - at least for now. The biggest drawbacks of nuclear power (expensive and slow plant construction) are off the table with existing plants! Hardening existing plants against possible…

This argument causes some of the problems this argument tries to avoid. > I'm opposed to the construction of new nuclear plants The technology involved in nuclear plants has evolved tremendously, both in terms of efficiency and in terms of safety, but the technology of the new generation is fundamentally different. > The biggest drawbacks of nuclear power (expensive and slow plant construction) are off the table with…

The technology is better but the costs are too high.

Also (the surviving units at) Chernobyl have been shut down for several years.

Re: Japan Turns to Coal After Closing Nuclear Power Plants

#80

Post by Spooky23 »

FooHentai wrote: post #72
espadrine wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument causes some of the problems this argument tries to avoid. > I'm opposed to the construction of new nuclear plants The technology involved in nuclear plants has evolved tremendously, both in terms of efficiency and in terms of safety, but the technology of the new generation is fundamentally different. > The biggest drawbacks of nuclear power (expensive and slow plant construction) are off the table with…

I don't follow what you're saying about 'GEN IV' reactors. AFAIK, that's reactors of a type that won't be online until at least 2030: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_IV_reactor The primary failure at Fukushima was a sea wall too low for the tsunami that occurred. How is the reactor design relevant? Also regarding Superphénix, your telling of this seems a bit biased - The rocket attack occurred in 1982 and it…

The argument boils down to nuclear is safe and cheap, except that we only have unsafe designs because of ignorant people, it’s expensive because regulation (of the old, unacceptable designs), and waste totally isn’t a problem because someday we’ll figure it out.
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