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France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

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Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#151

Post by flatiron »

jonplackett wrote: post #128
wmeredith wrote: post #124

This is so dumb. Apple has a lot of flaws but old hardware support certainly isn’t one of them. Firstly, they only slowed down older phones to prevent them from crashing as they had less and less reliable battery draw. Secondly, Apple’s support for legacy phone hardware is the best in the market. It’s absurd that they’re being punished for this.

The problem is they didn't tell anyone they were doing it. So people thought their phone was just old and slow and bought a new one, when they could have just replaced the battery and made it fast again.

Faster I’ve toggled the switch before on an iPhone. It’s not a night and day type difference. Feature creep kills it way more than battery throttling.

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#152

Post by varenc »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #147
vbezhenar wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is only partly with slow OS. For me the real culprit is inability to downgrade OS and apps. I have iPhone 4S. It was amazing phone when it was running iOS 6. Now it's slow as molasses. May be it should not be one-click, as it causes security issues and user must understand the implications. But there must be a way for official downgrade.

> Now it's slow as molasses Given that the iPhone 4s can't run iOS versions past 2015's iOS 9, "now" would seem to be fairly relative. Also, I'm not sure I'd describe iOS upgrades as "one-click"; IIRC, you need to click through at least one screen telling you about the new OS and enter your passcode before the install. A lot of people probably do breeze through that without really understanding they're going through…

You can downgrade an iPhone's firmware IFF Apple is still signing that firmware version for your phone model. They don't make it easy to figure this out...but this site shows you what iOS versions are still being signed: https://ipsw.me/

You can see Apple is only signing iOS 7.1.2 for the iPhone 4. For the iPhone X (iPhone10,3) they're signing 13.3.1 and one version below it, iOS 13.3. So you could still downgrade to that.

In practice, if you're currently on the latest version and you update to a new version as soon as it comes out, you can almost always downgrade back to what you just had. But of course, if you wait too long without downgrading and Apple stops signing the old version you want, you'll be stuck with what you got.

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#153

Post by punnerud »

jonplackett wrote: post #128
wmeredith wrote: post #124

This is so dumb. Apple has a lot of flaws but old hardware support certainly isn’t one of them. Firstly, they only slowed down older phones to prevent them from crashing as they had less and less reliable battery draw. Secondly, Apple’s support for legacy phone hardware is the best in the market. It’s absurd that they’re being punished for this.

The problem is they didn't tell anyone they were doing it. So people thought their phone was just old and slow and bought a new one, when they could have just replaced the battery and made it fast again.

And the solution was to replace the battery to get your old iPhone fast again, not to buy a new one. Not intuitive for most people.

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#154

Post by selectodude »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #147
vbezhenar wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is only partly with slow OS. For me the real culprit is inability to downgrade OS and apps. I have iPhone 4S. It was amazing phone when it was running iOS 6. Now it's slow as molasses. May be it should not be one-click, as it causes security issues and user must understand the implications. But there must be a way for official downgrade.

> Now it's slow as molasses Given that the iPhone 4s can't run iOS versions past 2015's iOS 9, "now" would seem to be fairly relative. Also, I'm not sure I'd describe iOS upgrades as "one-click"; IIRC, you need to click through at least one screen telling you about the new OS and enter your passcode before the install. A lot of people probably do breeze through that without really understanding they're going through…

It isn't possible. The OS can't install without an Apple-provided key generated from a random nonce created by the phone. Once they stop providing those keys, even if you could restore the OS onto the phone, it won't boot without the ticket.

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#155

Post by teddyuk »

jonplackett wrote: post #128
wmeredith wrote: post #124

This is so dumb. Apple has a lot of flaws but old hardware support certainly isn’t one of them. Firstly, they only slowed down older phones to prevent them from crashing as they had less and less reliable battery draw. Secondly, Apple’s support for legacy phone hardware is the best in the market. It’s absurd that they’re being punished for this.

The problem is they didn't tell anyone they were doing it. So people thought their phone was just old and slow and bought a new one, when they could have just replaced the battery and made it fast again.

If you bought a top of the range machine for windows 95 and put windows 98 on it, it would have been slow.

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#156

Post by iDemonix »

asimovfan wrote: post #137
Someone1234 wrote: post #132

Apple was actually fined for failure to INFORM consumers that the update would slow down their phone. To quote the regulator: > were not informed that installing iOS updates (10.2.1 and 11.2) could slow down their devices [...] committed the crime of deceptive commercial practice by omission" and had agreed to pay the fine. This is kinda clickbait reporting from the BBC. Which depressingly has become more the norm in…

Yes :) apple did not swindle people, they just did not INFORM them how they were swindling them.

I'm not sure swindling involves negating a battery peak performance issue for users on old hardware. I still use an iPhone 6 and had noticed less crashes with upgrades (loading big apps would often crash it), less now with iOS upgrades. I can disable it if I want, but I prefer not to.

On the flip side, I have friends with Android phones that are 4 years old, and barely usable.

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#157

Post by caconym_ »

hannibalhorn wrote: post #131

They implemented a software feature to make an older, degraded battery last longer - while it should be optional and obvious, a government fine seems a bit over the top. We've all now got houses full of IoT devices (Smart TVs, Webcams, etc.) that have serious security problems and don't get proper updates because the vendors lack incentive. This is a disincentive, and totally the wrong way to go.

Yeah.

A choice between telling customers you'll slow down their phones because and silently making their phones work better in a way that's likely to generate clickbait outrage if it gets out is one between a rock and a hard place. Companies do so much shit behind consumers' backs, and so many hardware vendors drop software support on ridiculously short timelines, that this feels wrong. Very legal and very cool, sure, but just barking up the wrong tree in terms of focus on good outcomes for consumers.

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#158

Post by jedberg »

jonplackett wrote: post #126

Fined $27 million. Made $64 billion in the last 3 months. So that's about 1 hour of profit. I'm sure they've been taught a lesson they'll never forget. EDIT: as pointed out below, that was revenue not profit. But apple make so much damn profit it's not as crazy different as it would be for most companies. So it's more like 2.5 hours.

And the regulatory office that fined them just made their budget for the year...

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#159

Post by awinter-py »

> As part of the agreement, Apple must display a notice on its French-language website for a month. It says Apple "committed the crime of deceptive commercial practice by omission" and had agreed to pay the fine.

I'm not seeing the crime notice on https://www.apple.com/fr/. Where do I go to see this thing?

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#160

Post by pastor_elm »

jonplackett wrote: post #126

Fined $27 million. Made $64 billion in the last 3 months. So that's about 1 hour of profit. I'm sure they've been taught a lesson they'll never forget. EDIT: as pointed out below, that was revenue not profit. But apple make so much damn profit it's not as crazy different as it would be for most companies. So it's more like 2.5 hours.

Well only the French have the stones to lay out a fine like this.
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